ASOF speaks with Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater

Speaking on the Working Man Tribute CD, Rush & Rush fanship, and of course Dream Theater!

Steve Streeter: Hello Mike! As an introduction, we are A Show of Fans the Rush fanclub/fanzine/website. What I’d like to focus on is the Working Man CD.

Mike Portnoy: The infamous Working Man CD...

SS: Yes! (thought balloon: “infamous, eh?”) So, you’re billed as the Creative Consultant on this project. When did the idea for this first begin? I know you’ve covered Rush songs in the past, but tell me how this started and what exactly your involvement was.

MP: Well, it started in December of ‘95 and I guess I was the first person called. Or at least me and Billy Sheehan together. The whole nucleus started with me and Billy. Originally they asked if I would be interested in doing this with Billy. It definitely interested me on two levels. First, playing with Billy was a really cool opportunity. I’ve always been a fan of his playing so to do a project with him was exciting for me. And then I figured if there was any band I would want to be part of a tribute to it was Rush. They were always a huge, huge influence for me and also for the rest of the guys in Dream Theater. And if there was any drummer I’d tip my cap to it would be Neil. He was a big influence for me when I was younger. So the idea of that really excited me. How I ended up with the Creative Consultant credit, I guess, once I said ‘sure I’d love to be a part of this’, it became obvious that I was a big, big Rush fan and actually I guess I sort of had the best grasp of their career out of anybody involved. So I think Magna Carta gave me a certain amount of creative input in terms of picking the songs, maybe gathering some of the musicians, a lot of that kind of stuff. Now obviously, I had limited time available, so I could only be so much involved. I would have loved to have overseen the whole project. In fact, there’s things on the CD that I definitely would have done differently if I had more time to be involved. For the most part, it was picking the songs. Right off the bat, Billy and I were playing on six tracks, so that created about half the album in itself. It was fun because the stuff Billy and I did, we actually did together. A lot of the other stuff was Fed Ex’d, mailing back and forth, people doing their own tracks. A lot of the people didn’t even meet each other. Billy and I along with Brendt Allman, who did the rhythm guitar tracks with us, actually had five days to rehearse the stuff and play with the arrangement of it so that much was fun.

SS: That’s neat. So you were actually in the same studio playing and the rest of it was via Fed X or whatnot.

MP: That’s why the tracks we did were probably the most fiddled with. Everybody else had to stick close to the arrangements cause they were mailing their stuff in so nobody else could play off each other. But Billy and Brendt and I had a chance to fiddle with the stuff a bit.

SS: Interesting. Did you use your Tama kit?

MP: No, not at all actually. I mean, I did use a Tama Star Classic kit but it wasn’t my kit. At that point in December ‘95 when we recorded it, I had just switched back to Tama so they were still in the process of building my custom kit. So they just supplied me with drums to do the album. I called up Latin Percussion for some little doo-dads, you know, cowbells, crotales, all that kind of stuff...Basically I put the kit together around what it would require to reproduce some of the Rush parts.

SS: What were you using before Tama?

MP: I switched over to Mapex for two years. I always did play Tama but for two years I switched to Mapex because they were campaigning strongly to establish themselves as a heavy-weight drum company but for various reasons I went back to Tama and am now happily with them again.

SS: Now, Dream Theater has done some Rush songs live, right? I’m kicking myself because I haven’t seen you guys live yet!

MP: Well, back in our early days....

SS: Late eighties, ‘89,’90?...

MP: No, we actually performed back in ‘ 85 at Berklee College of Music in Boston. So the three original members, myself, John Petrucci, and John Myung, guitarist and bass player, we met at Berklee and pretty much our common bond was Rush at that point. So immediately the three of us found a common influence in Rush and we started playing stuff like, ‘Spirit of Radio’, ‘YYZ’... I remember even, the year we spent at Berklee, when we put the band together, that was on the Power Windows tour. We slept out for tickets right in front of the Berklee Performance Center and actually the original name for Dream Theater was Majesty. We came up with the name Majesty while waiting in line for tickets that night. We were listening to all different Rush tapes and we heard ‘Bastille Day’ and at the ending of ‘Bastille Day’ we said, “Oh, listen to how majestic this part is...hey, that’d be a great name for the band.” So Rush was definitely a big, big part of the influence in the very early days of the band.

SS: Right. Very apparent on your first album.

MP: Yeah, I think through the years we really have sort of grown into a different direction and established our own sound, at least hopefully. But back in the early days they were a big-time influence. And since then, to answer your question, as far as covering them, we did a cover show in London about two and a half years ago. A show where we did nothing but cover songs and also some special guests joined us on stage, Steve Howe, a couple guys from Marillion...and obviously, we figured, we’ve got to throw a Rush song into the set list. We decided to pick the most unobvious choice. Everyone would have expected us to do ‘Cygnus X-1’ or something really bizarre, so we ended up going in the opposite direction and chose to do ‘Tears’ from 2112.

SS: Now that appeared on your Christmas album didn’t it?

MP: Yeah. That version on the Christmas CD is from the cover show and as a result of doing it at the cover show we’ve done it a couple times since then. We did an acoustic version on a radio broadcast in Holland. So we’ve done it a couple times since then.

SS: Interesting selection. So you opted to pick something people wouldn’t expect.

MP: Something obscure, atypical. Which, in some respect was my thinking with choosing the tracks for Working Man. When it came time to pick the tracks that Billy and I were going to play on, and also subsequent tracks that I wouldn’t play on, I decided to focus on the period of theirs which was the biggest influence for me. Basically, the period between 2112 and Signals. Like ‘76 to ‘83. That was the biggest influence for me. So when picking the songs, I naturally chose from that period and I wanted to choose some of the more classics for the older fans and some of the obscure for the newer fans. Stuff like ‘Jacob’s Ladder’ and ‘Natural Science’, ‘By-Tor’. I didn’t want to pick the stuff they still currently do in their set list, like ‘Tom Sawyer’, ‘Spirit of Radio’, ‘YYZ’. I wanted to stay away from some of the more obvious ones.

SS: Yeah, I think the most obvious was ‘Closer To The Heart’. But that was a nice rendition actually. I really enjoyed that one. So I guess you got a kick out of seeing ‘Natural Science’ on the first leg of the current tour.

MP: Well, actually, that was on my wish list. I knew there were about five or six tracks that Billy and I could do. Beyond that there were other tracks that I wanted to see on the album so I submitted that list for other musicians to grab if they were interested and ‘Natural Science’ was a big one. One other big one that I really wanted to be on the album and it ended up not getting done was ‘The Camera Eye’. I really wanted to do that too.

SS: Mmmm... That would’ve been wonderful.

MP: Yeah.

SS: A couple other off the shoe questions... Who designed the Dream Theater logo originally?

MP: The symbol? Well, like I said, we were originally called Majesty so it’s a variation of the letter ‘M’ which was kind of taken from a symbol the Queen Mary of Scots had back in the old days. We were just looking for some sort of symbol based around an ‘M’ for Majesty and our old singer actually came up with this and since then we’ve kicked him out of the band as a result...(no, just kidding – that was for different reasons) but in any case, we thought the symbol was kind of cool and I got it tattooed on my arm and we did the first album cover with the symbol and then had to change our name to Dream Theater for trademark and copyright reasons. We decided, well, the artwork’s done, the tattoo’s on my arm, let’s just stick with the symbol anyway. And it’s been on every album ever since.

SS: Ah, I see... Okay. What do you think of the new label they’re tagging as Progressive Metal?

MP: I have two feelings on it. One being positive and one being negative. Obviously, the positive one would be, well, I guess, if you were to take our two biggest styles or sounds, it would be Progressive Rock and Heavy Metal, so I guess if you put ‘em together...then you could call it Progressive Metal. But I really think that our music, and this is such a cliché to say, but I honestly do feel this, that our music really transcends just that category. As soon as you throw that tag on, you’re suddenly thrown in with some sort of stereotype. Yes, we do have a lot of twelve minute songs and some of those twelve minute songs, half of them are instrumental, so it has all of those elements, but there’s other parts to our music. Yes, you can hear the Rush and Yes influence but you can also, if you really listen, hear just as much Beetles or Billy Joel or Journey or U2 influence if you listen to the other parts that aren’t in 9/8. So I think there’s a lot more to my band than that. But for lack of a better description, sure, we’ll take it.

SS: I think another similarity I see, is that you haven’t compromised, for instance, and I say this in a positive way, on the length of your songs. I notice that your new album, most of the songs clock in at six to twelve minutes.

MP: Well yeah, a big part of our interest in writing is that forum. When we put the band together, we missed the old days of ‘2112’ and ‘Close To The Edge’ and ‘Supper’s Ready’, all those classic, side-long epic songs. Nobody was doing that anymore. There was a real void in that style of music so we decided to fill that void and write in that style of music. There were some metal bands doing it. Metallica did it to a certain degree and taking a step backward even Iron Maiden and Deep Purple would write long songs in the metal vein. But we wanted to do it in the more progressive vein with a metal edge. Another reason that the songs are long is because we all contribute to the writing. We write collaboratively as a band. So when you have all these ideas coming out sometimes they can’t be conveyed in three minutes and fifty seconds. So what we do is take the clock off the wall and however long it takes to complete the idea then that’s it. Sometimes it’s twelve minutes and sometimes it can be done in four or five minutes. We don’t really think about it.

SS: Is the release still up in the air on the new album?

MP: Yeah, we’re getting ready to start it. We haven’t begun. We’ve just been writing and demoing for the last year. At this point, we have two and a half hours of music, sixteen songs. We have, literally, two or three CDs worth of music at this point. We’re going to go out and do some shows in Europe next month just to treat the fans because it’s been so long and everyone’s waiting and being impatient.

SS: Will you be back through the Midwest or in the States at all?

MP: No, I mean, when the album comes out, absolutely. We’ll do another extensive world tour like we always have but right now we have to concentrate on the record and getting that out by the fall or so.

SS: You’ve done a DCI drum video as well, haven’t you?

MP: That just came out. What it is, it’s a video I did for a Japanese company back in ‘95. DCI just picked it up for release in the States. It’s a video that to my ears and eyes is a bit dated but I guess to someone who hasn’t seen it, it will be new and fresh.

SS: Have you had a chance to see Neil’s A Work In Progress?

MP: Yes!

SS: What is your reaction to his Freddie Gruber influence?

MP: Well, I think the video is definitely informative. It’s definitely a tour-de-force. There’s a lot to swallow there. I’m glad to see that he finally did it because I think it’s something the fans have wanted to see for many years. I wish he did it fifteen years ago. I would have killed for it back then when he was my god. In any case it’s good to see that he finally did it and I’m glad to see that he’s re-inventing himself, so to speak, that he’s beginning to feel that passion for drumming once again and it’s great to see that he’s modest enough to want to learn still. After everything he’s accomplished it’s very easy to start taking those “Neil is god” suggestions to heart, isn’t it? It’s good to see that he is still modest enough to want to continue to grow as a musician.

SS: Oh yeah, I agree. I’ve been asked to ask you a question about a band – echolyn, that you toured with in ‘95. What is your take on that band?

MP: They’re a great band. I think it’s unfortunate what happened to them. What happened to them is, I think, the ultimate lesson to be learned in what sometimes may be a pot of gold in disguise, really could be, how should I say, sometimes things really are not what they seem, so what I’m getting at is, here’s a great progressive band playing really progressive music and very original and they got a major label deal. Most bands would kill for a major label deal so the point I’m trying to make is that sometimes that really can be the kiss of death, believe it or not. What happened with them was they finally put out an album and of course, since the music is a little more demanding, it would require a little more demanding marketing on behalf of the record company so it’s just tough. Doing this kind of music takes time and nurturing by the label. What happened to them is that once it was thrown out there and the label realized it wasn’t the flavor of the month they ended up not selling the records and getting dropped and as a result broke up. It really is a travesty in that sense because they were an incredible talent and a force. The progressive scene can really use all the leaders it can get, so when one of them gets a major label deal, you really root for them. It’s just a shame what happened because they were really talented. It’s just a lesson to be learned, that sometimes the dream is not all it’s cracked up to be. Just because you sign to a major label doesn’t mean that’s the best scenario you could have.

SS: True enough. I think a lot of the progressive music is on the upswing again. I get a good vibe about it both in cyberspace and through the mail, radio.

MP: Well, to give a little plug here, my favorite progressive band to pop out in years now is a band called Spock’s Beard. I don’t know if you or any of the readers are familiar with...

SS: Yeah, actually, vaguely... Someone mentioned them to me. Tell me about them.

MP: I heavily recommend them. They really carry the progressive flag, very proudly. They really remind me a lot of vintage Yes, combined with some Pink Floyd and Kansas. The song-writing is really amazing. A lot of progressive bands are either, a) trying to be so retro or, b) trying to be so virtuotic, (whatever the word!) that they forget about the importance of the song. Spock’s Beard are really great song-writers with melodic vocals and they really are able to write great music while still capturing great musicianship. So that comes with a heavy recommendation from me.

SS: Neat. We’ll definitely pass that along. Would that be a band you might tour with?

MP: I’d love to take them out with us when we hit the road again. We’ve always taken bands that have gone against the grain....

SS: That sounds like Rush...

MP: Well, Rush hasn’t taken us so I wouldn’t go that far.

SS: I suppose that would kind of be, in the back of your head, a dream...

MP: Absolutely. We don’t know why they haven’t asked us yet, but that’s beside the point. That’s a whole other issue, but in any case, we’ve always taken bands that we’ve wanted to support that are maybe not getting the support. That’s why we took echolyn. In the past we’ve taken Fates Warning, I Mother Earth, Galactic Cowboys. It’s always bands that we like, that we know our fans would like, that just aren’t getting the support or exposure that they deserve. So Spock’s Beard would definitely be at the top of my list.

SS: I will check them out. Quite frankly, a couple friends of mine have encouraged me to check ‘em out so, okay, I’ll do it!

MP: They may get a little more exposure too because the drummer, Nick D’Virgilio, just did some recording with Genesis. He’s gonna be on the new Genesis album. So he’s stepping into at least one of Phil Collins shoes.

SS: How interesting! Say, how was it working with Steve Howe?

MP: Steve was great! We had this cover gig and we put together a big Yes medley. We did ‘Close to the Edge’ and ‘Heart of the Sunrise’, ‘Siberian Khatru’, ‘Machine Messiah’, ‘Starship Trooper’... This big medley and Steve came down and rehearsed a couple days with us cause it was a pretty involved medley and he was great! It was a dream for us to be playing with him. He’s a real super nice guy. It was real exciting. Since then, I’ve gotten to spend a lot of time with Bill Bruford. We’ve actually jammed together. There’s been various Yes connections through the years so it’s been very exciting for us.

SS: There is an influence I hear in the epicness of your music...

MP: And the instrumentation. In fact, I would compare us, a lot of people always use to compare us to Rush, but I really would compare us more to Yes.

SS: Yeah, I definitely pick that up on the last couple albums. Well, I’ve got just a few more questions....

MP: We barely covered the Rush tribute album.

SS: I’d like to...

MP: It could be dangerous territory to ask my opinion...(chuckle).

SS: Well, okay, here’s a question: All is said and done, what is your feeling on the whole finished piece? And did you get a chance to work with Terry Brown?

MP: Actually, no. Terry went and did it himself. Obviously, like I said, my time was limited, I was doing my own thing. I wish I was there because there are things in the mix that I would have changed or at least have suggested. I know Terry though. He did a remix for us back in ‘89 and he’s worked with Fates Warning who are good friends of mine. So I’ve spent time with him in the studio. I love Terry, I think he did a really good job. As far as the album itself goes, I have a lot of feelings on this, and I know the Rush fans have passionately spoken up against it for the most part. I have to express my disappointment in that and also the three members of Rush. I would be crazy not to bring this up here and be honest about it, but to me, my involvement, before it even came out there were the objections by the members, or their lawyers or their management, whoever it was, and that immediately, I think, got the Rush fans to be against the project. That disappoints me because I think it was a lot of fun and this record was done with nothing but the best intentions. When I was asked to do this, I jumped on it from a creative point of view. To me, it was a way of saying thank you to a band who served as a huge influence for me. And I’ve seen Neil quoted as saying that it’s a bunch of bar bands who did it for the money to cash in on Rush’s name, and I’ll say from my stand, that it was not that at all. In fact, I did it completely to help pay tribute. That’s exactly why it’s called a tribute album. I think some of the other musicians involved, I mean, Billy Sheehan, Steve Morse, Jake E. Lee, Sebastian Bach, you know, I don’t know which bar bands Neil is seeing in Canada but there were a lot of established musicians who came out to pay tribute here and it really disappointed me and hurt me a bit to see that that’s the way it went down with the negative approach to it.

SS: Yeah, it caused a lot of stress among us too. We were very unsure how to handle it. For all we knew they could have told us to stop publishing our mag at that point. The whole thing was beyond our understanding. I mean, I like the CD. It’s just a fun thing.

MP: Well, that’s the thing. It was supposed to be fun. It was fun for me. I had a great time doing it. There are moments I would have changed. There are some points where the vocalists or guitar players I think, absolutely went overboard. But for the most part, everybody was doing it with the best intentions. And to take this a step further, I really also thought that it would introduce a new generation of fans to Rush that maybe, I mean, the fact of the matter is that Dream Theater, Mr. Big, Skid Row, we all sell more records in Japan and parts of Europe than Rush does at this point in 1996/97. It’s a reality. I was hoping that having some of our names attached to this would introduce some of the younger fans to Rush that maybe weren’t always exposed to Rush. I mean, here in America, Rush still has a great name, but over in Europe and Japan they’re just not as big. Our names over there are in some cases, bigger. I was hoping that there’d be a new generation of kids that started with Dream Theater albums and would now go back and dig into the Rush catalog and find out where our influences came from.

SS: That’s a good point. It’s important too. You go to a Rush show now and there’s three generations.

MP: Also what disappointed me was I did a lot of press for this before it came out. I must have done twenty interviews...

SS: Where were they printed?! I don’t recall seeing any.

MP: It was mostly in Europe actually because everything here in the States got blocked. I did stuff mainly in Europe and Japan. I did a lot of promotion for it. Because I was a big fan and I wanted to speak up on behalf of them and really promote them. Every single interview I did was nothing but praise and pro-Rush and when the album was released and the members of Rush sort of disregarded it or didn’t acknowledge it, it really hurt me. Unfortunately, it’s jaded me a bit and I have to be honest, I feel a bit bitter about it. It’s unfortunate that that happened and I have to go on the record saying that.

SS: I’m sorry to hear that. The way it turned out is not the way I would have liked it to from a fan standpoint.

MP: And I know the Rush fans stood by them and a lot of them have come down on the album because passionate fans have passionate opinions. Especially when they are given an opinion before they hear it. I know how passionate fans are. I see our fans like that and how much they argue and bicker over little minute things. So I know, I understand why Rush fans would be against this in principle just because the members of Rush were, but I think it wasn’t given a fair shake. The Rush camp had suspected that the tribute was a possible attempt by a small, little label to cash in on the Rush name and fanbase. I must say here that Magna Carta is the only label in existence that signs and gives any exposure to up and coming Progressive music. These bands would have no careers and probably no exposure if it weren’t for a label like Magna Carta. They are THE ONLY label in existence that has based their entire roster on music and talent. AND NOT MONEY!!! I don’t blame them for wanting to “cash in” (for lack of a better term) on Rush’s fanbase, because they seem to be the fanbase that most appreciates quality music and would probably enjoy the bands on the label’s roster if given the chance to be exposed to it!!! If anything, Magna Carta needs to be commended. NOT condemned!

SS: I agree. Well, I’m glad you got that out there on record because at this point it’s all clear but it was a ridiculous thing to go through. There are some great original bands on Magna Carta. (i.e. Magellan, who I HIGHLY recommend and Enchant also). But from what I hear, Working Man is doing well and people are liking it, based on the calls we get from around the country.

MP: Well, that’s good.

SS: There’s actually a lot of people that don’t know about the rift that went down. That’s on the positive side.

MP: People, can’t we just all get along? (chuckle) I was hoping we, or any other progressive band would get the support and hopefully be embraced by Rush fans. We all just want to make good music. Me, as a fan and a listener, I just want to hear good progressive music and good musicianship and bands with integrity that are willing to go against the grain. That’s what Rush stood for and stands for and that’s what there’s a new generation of bands doing so I hate to see so much competition. And I see the Rush fans pitting us against Rush or us against Queensrÿche or Queensrÿche against Fates Warning and it’s like, we’re all in this together.

SS: Well, I agree. It’s unfortunate. Even on the net we’ve got ASOF.com, which has just taken off but we’re not competing, we’re there, we’re offering something but some people see it as competition. No, we’re just out here to share our fanship for Rush. We do just have to get along!

MP: Rush fans are allowed to listen to Dream Theater. It’s not a competition.

SS: Right! Exactly! And Dream Theater and other great prog bands deserve the support and exposure. So, what’s your favorite cut on the Working Man album? I guess something that stands out is Devin Townsend’s vocals on ‘Natural Science’. Pretty intense.

MP: Well, actually, believe it or not, I really like that, I gotta be honest. That’s probably the most controversial moment on the album or at least performance on the album. Either you love it or you hate it. But I like the original approach.

SS: I agree. It’s got a lot of guts.

MP: Yeah, but I think my favorite part of the album, at least that I was involved with, was ‘La Villa Strangiato’. I’m real happy with that. Every song, and I can even say this about any Dream Theater song or record, every time I hear it there’s a thing here or a thing there that I wish was different or that I would change but for the most part, I think ‘La Villa Strangiato’ really, I mean, that was always one of my favorite Rush songs, or one of my favorite instrumentals of any band of all time, so that was probably the first song I picked when I got on board and to me, it was really cool to play with Billy Sheehan and also Steve Morse playing a solo on that. Steve’s always been one of my favorite guitar players, so I was just real happy with that. I think my favorite song that I wasn’t a part of was ‘Natural Science’.

SS: Yeah, that was an excellent song. I thought the ‘Working Man/By-Tor’ medley was nicely done too.

MP: Right. Actually I suggested that because I heard something similar to that on, I guess it’s a famous bootleg from Electric Ladyland Studios. So that’s where I got the idea to do that.

SS: Oh yeah! Exactly. That’s what crossed my mind.

MP: See, that’s the proof in the pudding that there was a Rush fan behind this. I don’t think you’ll find a bigger Rush fan that also happens to have gold records and Modern Drummer Magazine awards of their own on the wall. I don’t think you’ll find a bigger fan that’s out there in an established band.

SS: That’s great. I know, I can tell you’re a big fan from some of the things you’re into and some of the things I’ve heard. You’re a big fan in a great band in itself. I think it’s really neat. As far as Working Man, there’s certain things I wish would have turned out differently but overall I think it was really well done.

MP: I have to say, when all was said and done, I’m still happy I was involved. Even with all the controversy involved, I don’t care. I still had a great time doing it.

SS: What was your first Rush show that you went to?

MP: The first time I saw them was on the Signals tour in ‘83. So I guess I was a late bloomer. Well, late for the most part, I know people that saw them on the Hemispheres tour...

SS: Yeah, I saw them on Kings.

MP: Yeah, that’s amazing. I’m jealous. But I didn’t get to see them till Signals. I do have a lot of great bootlegs from back then though.

SS: You’re considered the archivist. You have quite a collection of things you hold on to.

MP: Yeah. I think it stems from me being, first and foremost, a fan of music. So obviously, when I’ m in a band that now I can collect...I happen to be in a band that I can collect now as well, so...I do. I just bought a huge house because I needed the space for my library. I’ m not joking. I have thousands and thousands of CDs and DATs and tapes everywhere. Somebody’s got to collect the stuff.

SS: I completely agree! Hey, I’d like to send you some issues of ASOF. You haven’t seen it have you?

MP: No, I would love if you could put me on the mailing list or give me a subscription.

SS: You got it Mike! It was a pleasure speaking with you. Please do stay in touch, okay?