Thomas Lang interview (excerpt)

I’d Hit That: Let’s jump ahead for a minute. Let's talk about the Dream Theater audition. I want to know if – can you say at this point looking back, was at something you really, really, really wanted, or was it like ehhh 80% wanted it?

Thomas Lang: Well, I didn't really, really, really want it. Maybe – I don't if that was visible or people could...

IHT: I’m not saying I could see it on that documentary that was made.

TL: For me was a surprise when the management called me. I said “no” the first time. There was a bit of back-and-forth about various issues in the setup of this whole thing, and I said, “I don't think so. I don't think I'll be part of that.”

IHT: But did you like it? Did you even know it?

TL: I knew it, of course. And I’m a huge progressive rock and progressive metal fan, and I’ve played with some of the original progressive rock guys, like UK, John Wetton, etc. and I wasn’t a fan, but I have a lot of respect for what they were doing. I wasn't really educated enough to make a competent educated decision. I didn't know all their stuff, so I thought maybe if their fan base is so huge, maybe I'm just one of those idiots who never really got into their stuff and maybe I'll love it – I don't know. So I gave them and the whole thing the benefit of the doubt, from my perspective, and said, “Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I don't like it because I don't know it, so I should investigate and find out.” People are raving about it and people make such a big deal out of it, so maybe I’m the buffoon here and I should check out what the heck’s going on. The reason why I did it in end is I wanted to see what the heck was up.

IHT: Was it more that – the curiosity–

TL: It was the curiosity, purely! Virgil’s a very good friend of mine. Virgil and I spoke before this, and Derek also – Derek Roddy. And Aquiles is a great friend of mine. So we all spoke before the audition and Mike Mangini and Portnoy, too – I mean, we’re all friends. Some closer than others, but we’re all friends.

IHT: Had you spoke to Portnoy before this?

TL: Before I spoke to Portnoy as well.

IHT: What did he say?

TL: About doing the audition?

IHT: In other words, was it a kind of situation where you felt like, “Thomas, if you're really my friend, you wouldn’t do this” or was he like, “Hey, go get ‘em, man!”

TL: No. I felt sorry for him, because obviously it was his band. He just lost something that was very important to him, and he was obviously in pain and also in shock, and I don't think he minded anybody else auditioning. Actually, I think he preferred to know that some of his personal friends were auditioning for the band. I think it was better than some unknown person. I don’t know – I may be wrong. But it didn't seem like it was inappropriate or anything too additional to agree to show up at all.

IHT: It didn't feel like you were dating his ex-wife.

TL: Not at all. Exactly.

IHT: It didn't feel like that.

TL: No – not at all. And also after the audition, when we spoke about it, we were both totally cool about it. And he asked me like, “What was going on, do you know anything”, etc., etc. And I said, “No. Do you know anything?” cause it took quite a while to hear back from them and talk to management again. Also at the same time, when he was working with Avenged Sevenfold, Mike Elizondo, who’s here in West Lake, and he's a producer who produced Avenged Sevenfold – at the same time I heard about the Dream Theater gig, I heard about the fact that he was no longer in Avenged Sevenfold, which he didn’t know at the time, ‘cause I had spoken to Mike [Elizondo] directly. So I heard it first. I felt weird about that, because there were two bands he was no longer in right now, and I was asked to come in and audition for Avenged Sevenfold the same day I got the call for Dream Theater. Of course, Avenged is not for me. And I went and did the audition.

IHT: Oh, you did?

TL: Yeah. I went there ‘cause Mike is like two minutes from here.

IHT: Was it again just out of like, “All right, what the hell?”

TL: It was like, “Let’s see what’s going on” because I was recommended by a very close friend, Gregg Bissonnette, who’s my neighbor. He said, “This would be something for Thomas.” Anyways, it was a weird thing. Obviously, I’m too old for the band, and I don’t look the part. And it’s just not for me, although the playing would be cool. Naturally, I’m not the guy.

IHT: Did you talk about this or did you just felt this?

TL: No, I knew beforehand.

IHT: But did you go in there and say to those guys, “Come on this is...”

TL: No. No. I just slaughtered the songs, man! I just played them the best I could and totally killed it. But I also knew that I would like to maybe make a connection with the producer of somebody involved in the project on a different level, but I didn't think I would be the right guy to play and tour with them. Absolutely not. However, with Dream Theater, after doing all my research and investigating a little bit, and being into that kind of music, I knew totally it would be right up my alley musically, but I had to make a decision creatively. Like, “Am I going to play everything the way Mike played it, and play every fill in that world and play that style, or try to make it my own?”, and I didn't want to do anything other than make my own. So by making the decision, you have a 50-50 chance of getting the gig in the first place, or not. Not only were they looking for something else, somebody who maybe will play the parts a lot more like they are the record, but also there were many factors involved: personal things and people usually associate the audition only with the playing aspect and the command over the instrument of the music, which is the smallest part of it.

IHT: You gotta live with these guys and spend a lot of time with them.

TL: Exactly. And it depends very much on whether you like the people and the people like you or not. I like the people and I think they liked me, too, but there's also other elements – budget questions, logistical issues and fees, etc., etc., etc. So much must be considered and many options have to be weighed out, and in this case, it just didn’t line up for nobody, which is totally cool. I'm really happy about that, because for me, it was a great positive experience – it was awesome and I enjoyed playing with them and learning the songs and having the challenge. And I think I totally nailed it to the floor and it felt great. I wanted to play it the way I play music, and from my point of view, I killed it because that's the way I approach the music and you either like it, or you don't. It's not me trying to sound arrogant, because it’s their music. But if they liked that approach, they would’ve loved it. But I don't think they like that approach, if you know what I mean. Because I remember looking back, they ask me, “Hey, what kind of drums are you going to use?” And I said, “I’ll use a 4-piece kit if you want.” I used whatever drums they had in the studio for the audition. They had all the octobans and gong drums and like 15 tom-toms there, and everything else. And I didn’t set up the whole thing because there wasn't enough time, first of all. Secondly, the monitor situation was difficult – in-ear monitoring. And so I just kept it minimal. But later, I just kind of found out that they were looking for somebody who said “well dude, I set up half the stage full of drums” cause they were of that sort of [mindset]. And I thought maybe after having been with Portnoy for all these years, maybe they’re looking for a drummer who's only got a four-piece kit. Cause soundchecks will be shorter, and gear will be cheaper to transport, and set up, and this and that. But no, they were going for like all out. And you look at Mike Mangini’s kit now. So I was totally like, “No man” – I was thinking like Mars Volta, and I was thinking like old school progressive. Like I can do this on a frickin’ 4-piece and I could kill it. But they were of a different philosophy generally. But again, in the end, it was a great experience and a lot of fun. And I think it’s great, they chose the right guy. He's East Coast, he's local. There’s a lot of things again, like I said to be considered. One of which is budget. If you have a guy who’s local, that eliminates a lot of problems and costs.

IHT: You don’t have to fly him in for rehearsal.

TL: And you don't have to get work visas and international travel and overseas stuff, and accommodations in hotels. That alone will help make a decision.

IHT: Yeah, that's true. That's a really good point.

TL: Especially considering that was their last record for Roadrunner. Also, let me just mention this, cause there's so much gossip about this – obviously Dream Theater’s audience is half guitar players, half drummers basically, if you look at the muso audience that they have. Half the fans are drummers, or at least air drummers. With Mike Portnoy being gone, they potentially lose half their audience. So they really had to do something to appeal to the drum audience. They had to do something publicity-wise, marketing-wise to put out there that they're still gonna be amazing, even with a new drummer. And there is no other way that you could get seven of the world’s best and most relevant drummers to play Dream Theater music unless you call it an audition. Cause it wouldn’t be affordable, and film it and release it as a product.

IHT: Did you know this beforehand?

TL: No. Nobody did.

IHT: You didn't know. In other words, you got there, and there was just cameras around–

TL: Oh yeah yeah yeah. That I did know, because that was the hang up in the beginning when I said I cannot do it, because they sent me a release contract – or consent form first for feeling. And I said “what’s this for?” And they said, “Well, we want to review the performances. The band wants to go home and check and look at it and compare and analyze.” And I’m like, “That's fair. That sounds cool.”

IHT: But a consent form for that?

TL: Yeah. To allow people to film you and record you.

IHT: But I thought that was for releasing.

TL: No, that's a release form. That was a different form. Then, when that form came, I became obviously a little bit suspicious. And I had a lot of conversations about this with the other guys–

IHT: Cause you felt like, “Wait, this is the place from the beginning”, and you weren’t completely–

TL: Of course, right. And you know, with my wife being a publicist, and I work in the industry, I've been there long enough to know.

IHT: That’s what I’ve been saying, and you feel like, “F*** you! Do you think I just came off the boat? Why are you treating me like this?”

TL: Well, they did send it beforehand. And you do have the choice to say yes or no. But at that point, I was ready to go. I mean I was like ready to get on a plane.

IHT: But just to clear the timeline: in other words, they sent you the consent form to say we’re gonna video tape you for our use. OK, fine. You go, you do it, you're being filmed. Afterwards, they're saying, “Oh now we wanna release it.”

TL: No, it was still before. So, I was aware, but at that point, this whole spiel had progressed so much that I had learned the songs, I had prepared for the thing and I agreed to show up and they booked the flight. They’d given me the cameras to film myself preparing and all this kinda stuff. There’s many aspects to this. In fact, they’d sent me a camera to film myself preparing, because they want to see... Then they sent me a questionnaire and – I don’t know if this is confidential information or any of the other drummers – I think a lot of the other drummers have talked about this already, so I don't care and this is probably by now common knowledge anyways – but they sent me a question and things like that, which I felt was totally cool, cause if I'm looking for a new guy in my band, I want to know stuff about him.

IHT: What kind of questions were they? Were they really personal?

TL: Yeah. Personal questions – like loads of them! There’s a whole 60 question or whatever. It was like pages of questions and they said “can you film yourself answering these questions?” And I said, “Totally cool,” and they sent me a camera and I filmed myself doing the stuff. Then when that form came, the second–

IHT: The release form.

TL: Or the consent for release form – the second one – exactly. Obviously, the red flag came up for me and it was, “Ah, okay. I know where this is going now, and this is not the way I see this happening.” So I disagreed to them using any of this footage – they used some of the other guys’ footage of themselves preparing at home and stuff like that. I thought, “Okay, now this isn't the initial contract, an agreement we had in consent form was at the first e-mails was about a private and confidential audition. And suddenly, with the arrival of the camera, the questionnaire and the second contract, it was no longer a private and confidential audition. It suddenly reeked of product to me, and I said “no” at that point. “I’m not coming.” And that's when they said, “Awww come on! It wouldn't be complete without you and it would be great for you and all the publicity and imagine” this and imagine that. And I’m like, “I don't think I need that publicity necessarily – to be one of the seven guys didn't get the gig. Maybe that’s not the publicity I want. We talked amongst us – Virgil and Derek and Aquiles and I. Actually, at the time I was in Brazil in South America, so I was on the road when I was preparing for this, with Paulina Rubio. I was doing a South American tour. It was very hard to prepare for this audition, cause I was touring and playing every night on a 4-piece kit. I didn’t have drums and... Anyways, I met Aquiles in Brazil just before, and we talked about it. And I was on the phone to Virgil about this bunch of times, and at one point Virgil just said, “Listen, I’m just gonna do it. I don't care. I’m gonna do it and see what’s up. I signed this thing. I know what they're doing and obviously it's a way of... they have to drum up some publicity, marketing.”

IHT: It’s a little dirty.

TL: It’s not really even that dirty.

IHT: It just sounds like it was the plan from the beginning.

TL: Of course it was! Fair enough. Great marketing ploy. Great management. Super idea. What can you say? It’s not unfair.

IHT: Do you think it was points against you though going in? Were you the one guy they were like, “Well, he’s difficult. OK, he’s a difficult guy.”

TL: Of course, when I first met management... I mean after I said “no” basically a bunch of times, and I said, “I don’t think this is private and confidential anymore if you plan to release any of this,” of course there was that sort of aspect, yes. And so I went in from that angle, which made it more difficult, probably.

IHT: That’s what I’m saying. You kind of went in with points against you.

TL: Yeah. A little bit.

IHT: Cause I can imagine Mangini, I guess was just from the get-go “Sure! Sure! Sure!” But good experience overall?

TL: For me it was a great, fun experience and it was a very...

IHT: Did it help you? They were mentioning the publicity. Did you see any kind of...

TL: No. I mean, what I saw and have experienced since then is a lot of questions like *this*. At clinics, it’s, “What was it like?” So I don’t know if that's a good thing or bad thing. I think it maybe put me on the radar with some of the Dream Theater drum fans who didn't know me before. Maybe it was good, but it also put me on the list of the seven guys who didn’t get the gig. [laughs]

IHT: Yeah, but see now, with anyone listening to this [podcast] for example, knows, “Ahh, OK.” There was a lot of talk before going in. This wasn’t a regular audition is all we’re establishing.

TL: No. This wasn’t regular on any level. I mean it wasn’t regular because it wasn’t confidential and private, first of all. It wasn’t regular because the audition itself was like no other audition I’ve ever experienced or heard of, cause it was super long and very in-depth, and sort of complex and challenging on many levels musically. And also, of course it wasn’t a regular audition because it was being filmed and multi-track recorded. So that kind of added pressure is a whole other dimension of challenge to it. And it wasn't a normal audition because the decision process was public. They had announced they were looking for a drummer and then they said, “Well, in two weeks, in one week, we will know.” So it was a public selection process.

IHT: It was like American Idol!

TL: It was. It was weird in that sense. So on no level was it a normal audition, but that was the point. I mean it was like the Metallica thing with Robert Trujillo, only on their scale. I mean, they didn't give anybody $1 million up front to be in the band, but they did whatever they could to drum up as much publicity so they could keep their audience focused and interested in believing in the band, and it worked, I think. So kudos to them and their manager for that idea. Me, as a hobby marketing man and publicist – my wife being a publicist – we know. We looked at it this and went, “Sure. Genius. How else could you get seven guys?” You could never afford to pay for Virgil Donati and Derek Roddy and Aquiles Priester, and all these guys to fly to New York, learn the music beforehand, and then agree to the filming, agree to do multi-track recording, agreed to a release... You can never afford to do that, especially on the last record for Roadrunner, unless you say it's an audition.

IHT: See, that’s the interesting thing. You put it like, “I'm one of the seven guys who didn't get the gig” and I’m almost thinking in a way, you did get the gig. You’re one of the seven guys who did get the gig. In other words, they get to say, “Look at all these drummers – these great names that we did work with.” They did choose you – you follow me?

TL: Yeah, I know. I was on the shortlist, and it’s a big honor, and I'm in really great company with all those guys. And of course, I feel very honored in that sense, but at the same time...

IHT: You’re better friends with Mike Portnoy now!

TL: Yes absolutely! I'm good friends with Mike Portnoy. And I’m still great friends with Mike Mangini. I mean, we’re all friends – it’s never gonna change.

IHT: But that's a different thing. I don’t know how Mike Portnoy and Mike Mangini are...

TL: Oh they were friends before, too, and I'm sure they still are. I don’t know if they’re...

IHT: ...as close...

TL: Oh, I wouldn’t think so. I don’t think it has anything to do with that. I mean everybody's an adult and I’m sure it means a lot to Mike Portnoy and to Mike Mangini by now, I think they can put that aside and be friends and colleagues, like they were before. But again, although having been on the shortlist and having been of the whole part of the experience, at the end of the day, in reality, me personally being the skeptic that I am and being the realist that I am, I look at it as, “You are on the list of the seven people who tried and didn't get the gig.” And it doesn’t bother me, but it...

IHT: There’s a little darkness in you. You see you were saying before that, “I’m not that guy” but you are. You call it skeptical or cynical maybe.

TL: Yeah, well I’m more of a realist. And in reality, that’s what it is. If you look at the equivalent in the movie industry, if you know that Robert Downey, Jr. is Ironman now, who else was up for the part? You never know. Maybe two years later you find out that Hugh Jackman said no to the role, or somebody's agent said no. If you actually see the list of everybody who auditioned, who didn't get the gig, it's a different experience. And then, why would everybody talk about the people who didn't get the gig? It's because it's not public. You don't see everybody auditioning.

IHT: “Here comes a fast fact: did you know...?”

TL: Exactly. But in this case, imagine you release the audition reel of Hugh Jackman, Liev Schreiber and all these people auditioning for Ironman, and eventually Robert Downey, Jr. getting it. How would Hugh Jackman feel about that? If his audition is being released, and maybe it makes him a bigger man personally – maybe it puts him on the radar of Ironman fans who didn't know him before. But really? [laughs] Is that a good thing necessarily?

IHT: I see what you’re saying, man. But again, you and your wife saw through this whole thing. You did get it. You got it, and you just went “OK.”

TL: We knew before. We were fully aware of it. And we had the conversation with management and they said [laughs] “it would just not be complete without you!” [laughs] “Our ploy would not work out! We need you!” No, it was fun.