Mike Portnoy interview

Sebastien Demay: Let’s go directly to the subject, about Octavarium. What was the real reason to go back to the studio so quickly?

Mike Portnoy: To go back to the studio so quickly?

SD: Yeah, because you took only one month for a break, I think, after the tour.

MP: The Train Of Thought tour was actually a little shorter than what we had done in the past. We only did one European leg as opposed to three or four. Being that we purposely shortened it, we just felt that we can get into the studio sooner as a result. That’s where we were at. We had some time off after the Budokan show and before the Yes tour – there was like two or three months off, and we only did a couple of one-offs in Italy. But other than that, we had a lot of downtime. So, we felt it was time to start work on the next record. In fact, if that Yes tour didn’t come around, we probably would have ended the tour after the Budokan, and it’s just that the Yes tour fell into our lap, so we took it. But otherwise, we felt the Train Of Thought tour had done its job, and it was time to think about the next record. So we scheduled it and went ahead. We wanted to get started before the Christmas break.

SD: Had you written anything before the tour with Yes?

MP: No, we were basically starting from scratch when we entered the studio, as we usually do. I mean, only concepts and direction, but no music.

SD: But was it difficult to start writing the album after such a short break?

MP: No, it wasn’t. It was easy. And like I said, we had just come off a pretty extended break right before the Yes tour. So we were mentally prepared to move on to the next stage.

SD: A good part of the songs are shorter than the average on the last two albums. Was it a deliberate choice to make shorter songs? Did you force yourself?

MP: I wouldn’t say we forced ourselves, it was more like we challenged ourselves. For us, it’s very easy to write 12-minute songs – it’s very natural. For us, it’s a challenge to write a short song, and that was one of the things we wanted to do because the last couple of albums have just been nothing but long songs. We don’t want to keep repeating the same formula over and over and over, so we felt this time around it could be a change of pace to try to have a few shorter songs. So that was kind of our goal when writing several of them.

SD: It’s good to see you back into some songs like you had maybe on Falling Into Infinity, but this time with your entire artistic freedom.

MP: Right. I think I said that before, but this album does remind me a little bit of Falling Into Infinity. This is probably what Falling Into Infinity would have ended up sounding like if we didn’t have anybody poking their noses into our business. Like what Falling Into Infinity would have been like on our own terms.

SD: James’ voice showcased an incredible variety on this album. Was James more involved in the writing of the vocal melodies, or was it a conscious try to push him on the front stage this time?

MP: I think a lot has to do with his open-mindedness when recording his vocals. I agree with you. I think James did an incredible job throughout the entire album. He was involved with the vocal melodies. Him and myself and John spent time constructing them, but we’ve worked together like that for many years now, so I can’t say it was any more than usual, but he was equally involved. He’s very open to suggestion when tracking. I think some of the things he did with the delivery on something like ‘I Walk Beside You’, he really gave it a lot of character. And something like ‘Panic Attack’, he was doing things with his voice that maybe he never had done before. He was very open-minded to suggestion and direction in the studio, and I think that’s a big credit to him as a singer and as a person.

SD: Compared to Train Of Thought, the album is longer, but not a lot longer, and it seems [there’s more singing], maybe 50% more. So I was wondering if you wanted to have more vocals on this album this time?

MP: Well, we didn’t consciously try to write more vocals. I think we ended up writing a few more vocal-oriented songs. Things like ‘These Walls’ and ‘The Answer Lies Within’ and ‘I Walk Beside You’ – those are very vocal-oriented songs. And the other conscious decision was to not have an instrumental. We decided early on to just not have one on this album because once again, it was just becoming predictable that we always have an instrumental. So we decided to make eight songs, all with vocals.

SD: The sound of the album is pretty different compared to the last album. This is obvious. So what made the band change its mind about working with Kevin [Shirley]?

MP: Once again, just not wanting to keep repeating the same thing and wanting to shake up the formula a little bit and try something different. We still have a great relationship with Kevin. We still respect him and we still love him as a person. But after eight years of working together, it was time to try on some fresh ears.

SD: Did you also think about hiring a producer rather than just changing the mixer?

MP: No, I mean, I’ll never say never. It’s possible that one day we could work with an outside producer again, but right now at this point in our creative career, we’re very happy with the way that we’ve been working, working with Doug as an engineer and then me and John producing and then an outside mixer. I think that formula works very, very well for us right now.

SD: So it didn’t cross your mind before entering the studio. You knew that you wanted to produce it again.

MP: Well, everything crosses my mind, but what we do is what we’ve done. Of course, it was a thought, but at the end of the day, I think this is the right formula for us right now.

SD: OK, but I heard from a very reliable source that Steven Wilson had been approached. Is it true?

MP: Steven Wilson was approached to mix the album. And actually, early on, he even committed to it. He and I had spoken about it, and he was going to do it. Then, as we got closer to the mixing process, his schedule ended up getting filled, and then he ended up having to pass on the offer. But that was only in the mixing capacity, not a producing capacity.

SD: Who was on the list of people you had in mind for mixing the album? Who was number one, number two? Would you agree to let us know?

MP: Well, like I said, the first person was Steven Wilson. And early on, before we even began the album, I spoke with him, and then he was into it. Then about halfway through the album, when it looked like his schedule wasn’t going to work out and we had to look elsewhere, we started thinking of other people. The first choice for myself and John was Rich Costey, who’s done the Mars Volta, amongst many other things. Right now, he’s kind of the hot guy out there. We were very interested in working with him. But his schedule was all booked up, so he was not available. Then the next person on the list was Tim Palmer, who I was very impressed by the mixes that he did for Porcupine Tree’s last album, as well as the band Dredge. He did a few other albums that I was very impressed with. We spoke to him, and he was interested and wanted to do it, but his scheduling was not gonna work out to meet ours. So we ended up having to pass on him as well because of the scheduling.

Finally that’s when we hooked up with Michael Brauer. Obviously he’s got a great list of credits to his name. He ended up being really perfect because he was as excited to work with us as we were to work with him because he had been wanting to do a hard rock album. Most of the stuff in his discography is more pop-oriented or singer-songwriter-oriented, and he really wanted to do something like Dream Theater. So he was just as excited as us in the studio and just as much enthusiasm and focus and dedication. and it was great to have that kind of attitude with the mixer. Somebody that really loves the material and is pushing himself to make it the best it could be.

SD: You had asked us in January on the Ytseclub list [private mailing list for DT fan club personnel] what we would prefer: get an album with 60 minutes of music, like a classic album, or have the album filled up to the max. What was your idea behind this, and what songs would you have left apart?

MP: Well, it wouldn’t have been that we would have left something out. The thing was, throughout November and December, tracks two through seven were written before the Christmas break, and that was about 50 minutes’ worth of music or something like that – I’m calculating off the top of my head. Then after the New Year break, the very first song we wrote when we got back into the studio was ‘Octavarium’. So suddenly now the album is filled up with this giant 25-minute song. Before the Christmas break, we thought that we would be able to write maybe five more songs or whatever, and have a lot of shorter songs on the album – that was the intention. Then after we wrote ‘Octavarium’, and it was a very, very long song, that’s when I started wondering if it would be overkill to have an 80-minute album when one of the tracks is 25 minutes. Basically, I was just contemplating the pros and the cons, and I just wanted to throw the question out there to the fans and see what their opinions were, and wondering if we should continue to write a few more tracks, or if now that we have this big 25-minute piece, to just stop there, because it was so epic. So that was my thinking behind the question. Ultimately, we ended up just writing one more song, which was ‘The Root Of All Evil’, and that filled it up to about 75 minutes, and that seemed like it was perfect.

SD: So as ‘The Root Of All Evil’ is the sequel to ‘This Dying Soul’, does it mean that you hadn’t planned to write the sequel for this album?

MP: No, we did. It’s hard to put in words the formula to this album. It was very complex, and in my mind, I had the concept mapped out, and there is a deep concept in this album, if you really listen to it and tie in the artwork and things like that. It is definitely a concept album in a more thematic respect. So when writing the songs and when sequencing them and things like that, I had to constantly keep this concept in the back of my mind. We have a chart in the studio where we know which songs have been written and which songs we still want to write. And I knew that there needed to be another track that was gonna continue from ‘The Glass Prison’ and ‘This Dying Soul’. It was a matter of just fitting all the pieces into the puzzle. There were a few other ideas of some other songs we wanted to try, which we ended up having to abandon just because we ended up filling up pretty much most of the album. So there were some other ideas that we kind of just walked away from. It’s a hard question for me to answer without getting into specific details, but that kind of planning out and thinking and putting all the pieces of the puzzle into different orders and trying to connect it all and make it all work – that’s part of my madness. That’s the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night, and my wheels are always spinning. I’m always thinking of that stuff. Every day I’ll come into the studio and kind of map out to the other guys how the concept will work and what songs we need to work on and which ones we need to write. I’m just kind of like a mad scientist like that. And to kind of put it into words is very difficult for me.

SD: Is the concept related to the hidden nugget, the fact that each song is in a different key from F to F? Is it related to that, the concept?

MP: I’ll just say that the entire album has this concept of a musical octave and it applies on many, many levels. There’s many levels to the concept on this album. It gets pretty deep when you dig into it and you have the artwork and the lyrics. But, yeah, I mean, that’s the general concept.

SD: OK, because I was a bit surprised by the track position of ‘The Answer Lies Within’ as number two.

MP: Yeah, that was something that was a big struggle for me. Usually the sequencing is very, very important to me, and I’ll spend a lot of time struggling over that. And because of this concept – and without getting into too many details – the sequence kind of wrote itself on this album. Without giving too much away, I’ll just say that as soon as we wrote ‘Octavarium’, I immediately knew that that had to close the album. I didn’t want to have this big 24-minute track in the middle of the album. So as soon as we wrote that and then determined that that was going to close the album, that almost wrote the sequence of the album in itself, because certainly as soon as that happened, everything else needed to fall into place in a certain order. Once again, I know it sounds a little vague and a little confusing, but there was definitely a deep thought process into the whole concept and sequence of the album.

SD: Each track moves on each other with sound effects, so I guess this is related to the concept.

MP: Yeah, those little interludes are not accidental. Those are very intentional and they’re each placed in a certain spot for a certain reason.

SD: About the artwork, why did you choose Hugh Syme – was it because he worked with Rush and was it something you had in mind for a long time?

MP: Yeah, he’s always somebody that we always wanted to work with. It just felt like the time was right. In the early days, we always wanted to work with him, but we were afraid to because of the Rush comparison, we always stayed away from him. But I think now we’re far enough along in our career where we don’t need to kind of worry about that comparison any longer. We’ve already established ourselves. So we felt, “OK, I guess now the time is right. We can work with him.” And I had an amazing time working with him. He was a great, great person and artist to work with. It’s very possible we’ll continue to work together on more covers in the future.

SD: What’s the story behind the front cover being modified after you first released it? Because there was a big mess. I think the fans were writing a lot of things on your forum and afterwards it seems that you released a slightly modified version.

MP: There’s not much of a story. I think Hugh was just constantly tweaking things. I think there’s a famous quote – I’m probably going to misquote it here – but it’s something to the effect of ‘an artist never really finishes work, he just abandons it.’ I think that’s the case. Up until the very last deadline when the record company said, “OK, that’s it. Stop,” Hugh was constantly tweaking and changing things.

SD: Could you tell us more about the recording with the orchestra? I mean, who had the idea, who wrote the score, how did you convince the label about the cost, and so on? Who put the idea in the first place?

MP: Probably me, I guess. This is something that we’ve always talked about. The first thing we wrote was ‘Sacrifice Sons’ and when we wrote it, I remember saying, “God, this middle part would sound amazing with an orchestra.” It reminded me of ‘Diary of a Madman’ or something like that, and it just would sound great with an orchestra. We talked about it. It was like, “You know what? We’ve always talked about doing it. Let’s do it.” Once we had in our heads that we were definitely gonna do it, then things like the finale to ‘Octavarium’ sounded like it also could have used it, and the string quartet on ‘The Answer Lies Within’. So we started thinking of the places where we could utilize them when the sessions began.

And it went great. We worked with a scorer. We brought him in. His name is Jamshied. He came in and met with me and John, and we played him the sections of the songs we wanted scored, and then he went away and did some demos for us to hear. He played them to me and John, and we made some changes. Then we had the session, and the string players came in, and it was just a really amazing experience, something we’ve always talked about doing, and finally did it.

SD: Was the label really into it? Because I guess it’s quite expensive.

MP: It really wasn’t up to them. We have a budget for the making of the record, and how we spend it and budget it is really something that our manager oversees. So they didn’t even have a say in it, really. It was up to our manager to try to make the budget work and bring it to life.

SD: Was Jordan happy with the orchestra? Because I guess he could have done [it himself]. But was he cool with it?

MP: Yeah, he enjoyed it. Obviously, he’ll end up playing his rendition of it for the live versions when the tour begins, and he’s always been very capable of covering that sound in the band, but I think it was very exciting to all of us, including Jordan, to see the real string players playing these parts.

SD: I’d like to go into something that may be a bit controversial, but ‘Never Enough’ – would you agree if I say that we can hear some Muse influence in the singing?

MP: Yeah, absolutely. There’s no hiding that they’re one of my favorite bands to come around in many years. Inevitably, whatever we listen to becomes a part of your subconscious. Whatever you’re listening to at the time of making a record inevitably seeps its way into the way that your body moves, and the way your mind spins. So, yeah, I guess that was probably inevitable.

SD: Other than that, maybe we can hear some U2 in ‘I Walk Beside You’. Other than this, we cannot find obvious influences on this album.

MP: Well, I mean, people sometimes insult us for having influences, but we can’t help it. If you’re a fan of music and you listen to other bands – which we do or at least a few of us do – you can’t help but be inspired and it becomes a part of what you do and what you want to do. So that’s inevitable.

SD: In ‘Octavarium’ the song, I can clearly hear a lot of references to famous songs or albums, like ‘Supper’s Ready’, ‘Day for Night’... I think it’s surprising, but is it an ironic response to the ones who always criticize you for having influences?

MP: It’s not anything like that. For me, it was just an experiment in lyric writing. I had this concept that I had never seen anybody else do of connecting words and phrasings so they all create a big, giant run-on sentence. I decided to have some fun with it using pop culture references. There’s things in there ranging from the Ramones to Van Halen and everything in between. To me, it was just a fun experiment. I would have loved to have written a whole album like that. It was just so much fun. It was a fun thing to do for me.

SD: What is an octavarium? Because James sings and he shouts ‘trapped inside this Octavarium’. What is it?

MP: That’s part of the whole concept of the album. It’s one of the pieces of the puzzle.

SD: So it’s something abstract.

MP: You can ask me these questions one year from now, and then I’ll give you the answers. For right now, I’d rather the pieces of the puzzle be put together by the fans and the listener.

SD: OK. ‘I Walk Beside You’ – are you aware of the commercial potential of this song? Did you think about releasing a single? I know it’s not your goal, but obviously the song is really a possible hit.

MP: In a perfect world, it probably should be. I think it’s just as catchy or memorable or hooky as anything else out there. But really, when we wrote that song, it was only to try to write something shorter and more concise. We weren’t trying to write anything for radio because we just don’t expect that to ever happen for Dream Theater. If it happens, then that would be great because we never meant for it to happen. We just tried to write a good song. But I’ve always thought all of our albums have always had a couple of songs that could cross over. But it’s hard when you have the name Dream Theater attached to it because there’s already a stereotype or a history that’s attached to us that would prevent people from listening to us with an open mind.

SD: I think this track stands out more as a potential single. Did it bring any buzz at the label, or no?

MP: Yeah, I think a few people [at the label] really hear that potential, and what they do with it, I guess it’s in their hands now. We just make the records we make, and as soon as we deliver it, however many records it sells or how it’s perceived or what happens with it is completely out of our hands. It’s up to the record company and how they sell it, and it’s up to the fans on how they receive it. So really, it’s out of our hands now. Whatever happens, happens.

SD: But you aren’t aware of any plans from them?

MP: It’s a weird situation right now with the label because here in America, this album is released on Atlantic Records, and it’s our first time with a whole new staff of people. And it also happens to be our last album on the contract. So basically, they’re being handed a band that is only signed to them for one album, essentially. So it’s a strange situation, and it’s yet to be seen if that’s going to affect the way that they promote it. On one hand, I think they’re weary to put too much time and money and effort into an album or a band that could potentially leave them. But on the other hand, I think they feel if they really do go out of their way and create a hit record, then that would probably entice us to want to stay and continue with them. So it’s kind of a motivation for them. So it’s yet to be seen how the situation will unfold.

SD: How many edited versions did you make?

MP: I think we edited six out of the eight songs. Everything except for ‘Sacrifice Sons’ and ‘Octavarium’ has an edit. Whether or not they get used or issued is yet to be seen, but they are there.

SD: Do you know which one will be the bonus track of the Japanese release?

MP: There is no bonus track. I don’t know where that information came from.

SD: OK, because the website in Japan still lists a bonus track, and I guess it could be...

MP: They came to me asking for something, and there is nothing. We only recorded what’s on the album, and so there are no bonus tracks for Japan.

SD: It could have been an edited version, like it was for Six Degrees, for instance. So that’s why I was asking.

MP: Well, the thing was, technically, there was room on the second disc of Six Degrees to add that edit, but there really is no room on the [Octavarium] CD to add anything.

SD: About ‘The Root of All Evil’, this part of the saga seems to start to be positive compared to the first parts. Could you explain to us which part of the AA process is it referring to?

MP: I think the whole program, the deeper you get into the steps, it is more optimistic. It’s all about recovery, and recovery is about turning from bad to good. So that’s what the program of recovery is all about. So I think that’s going to inevitably reflect as these steps go along.

SD: About the next European tour in the fall, have you any ideas of the kind of stage production you will set up? Because on each tour you are improving the production on stage, so I was wondering if you are going to prepare something a little different this time again?

MP: We haven’t figured it out. This is an unusual situation where we’re actually going to begin a tour with festivals and co-headlining packages. So we actually still have time before we actually begin the headlining tour. So we haven’t even gotten to the point of discussing it yet. We’ll figure it out as we get closer.

SD: About Gigantour, I think it’s an incredible bill. I guess you are happy?

MP: Yeah, I think it’s going to be a great tour. To be honest, I would have chosen some different bands. I have had many, many conversations with Dave Mustaine trying to choose the bill. But ultimately he makes those final decisions. So he can only just take my suggestions and pick and choose whatever he wants. So at the end of the day, I think I would have probably chosen a slightly different bill. But that being said, I think it is going to be an incredible package and a great tour.

SD: Do you hope to reach some new fans?

MP: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think it’s gonna be good. There’s gonna be a lot of metal fans out there, and it’s gonna be a very different kind of audience for us in some respects. So it’s gonna be fun.

SD: Back to the next European tour, we know it will be an Evening With kind of tour, but as we know that you are listening to a lot of bands, do you feel sometimes like bringing back an opening band that you would like to make the audience discover?

MP: I’ve been pondering that thought. On one hand, I like touring with other bands and having these great opening bands and give them the opportunity to broaden their fan base. So there’s a part of me that kind of misses that. But on the other hand, if we were to do that now, I bet a lot of our fans would probably be disappointed and complain because they’ve become so spoiled by the three-hour Dream Theater shows. So I think the way we have it now, it’s a good balance where in the wintertime we’ll do our headlining Evening With, and then in the summertime we do stuff with other bands. I think as it stands now, it’s a good balance for us and for the fans.

SD: Does it look like there will be two nights in a row in Europe?

MP: There is definitely already one two-night stand that is booked. It hasn’t been announced yet, but it will be announced soon. It’s in the middle of October. It won’t be Paris, just so you know. I will say that it is a two-night stand in a place that hasn’t gotten a cover album yet, in a city that hasn’t had a two-night stand yet.

SD: I think that Italy would deserve it now, because it is one of your biggest audience.

MP: Well, Italy is one of the only countries that’s actually gonna get a headlining show in the summer and in the fall. I don’t think any other country is getting that.

SD: Maybe Germany would deserve it as well. But anywhere, we will go.

MP: I have some good ideas for it too. It’s gonna be a very good one.

SD: To finish, what are you up to? Obviously a new Neal Morse album, and as you are free again from Dream Theater recording, have you anything that you can disclose? Any other side projects or something?

MP: Well basically, since the Dream Theater album finished, I’ve been doing press and promotion and artwork and merchandise, all the stuff setting up the Dream Theater tour, so I haven’t had much time off, but John and I did some G3 shows in Japan, and that was filmed for a live DVD and CD, so that’ll be coming out soon. And then here I am doing Neal’s new album, and when I leave here, I go home and then the tour begins. So that’s pretty much all the time I have. And now starting in two weeks, the Dream Theater tour begins. And we’re gonna be going full throttle throughout the rest of the year.

SD: So it will be more of a Dream Theater-oriented year.

MP: Yeah.

SD: OK Mike, I think I have covered everything. But I understand you want to keep some details, that’s fair enough.

MP: Yeah. We can talk again at the end of the tour and then tie up all the question marks and the loose ends then.

SD: But I guess the fans will elaborate a lot of theories, like fans are doing with David Lynch films. Anyway, it ends like it begins.

MP: There’s many deep things going on in this album, and I look forward to seeing the fans dig into them. It’s kind of like I put that little nugget ‘In the Name of God’. This entire album is a giant nugget!

SD: Will you continue to start the next album with the last note from this one?

MP: No, part of the Octavarium concept was that we were able to break the cycle. Because now this album ends the same way it begins and it’s kind of now in its own loop. It’s kind of set up its own loop where it’s now stuck forever, trapped in this Octavarium of its own. So now suddenly we are free to start the next album any way we’d like now. But the beginning of the album actually ties in with many, many things. The very first note of the album ties in to three different things in itself. So there’s a lot of stuff going on.

SD: What are you listening to these days? What’s on your playlist?

MP: I love the new System Of A Down – I think it’s awesome. Very, very original. I have the new Weezer. I’m a big Weezer fan, but I’m a little disappointed by it. I think it’s a little too safe, a little typical. I like the new Ben Folds. [The new Dredge album] is awesome. Let me see. Let me open up my iTunes here. All I have in here is Dream Theater and Neal Morse’s new stuff because that’s what I’m learning. I like that band, Coheed and Cambria – they’re pretty cool. I’m listening to a lot of heavier stuff like Lamb Of God and Shadows Fall. Mastodon, I really like them. And of course, the new Mars Volta album is really cool. There’s a short list of what I’m listening to.