An Interview With James LaBrie

Introduction by Richard Parker

Spring 2005 saw James LaBrie on the road touring to support his third solo album Elements of Persuasion (distinct from the prior Mullmuzzler albums in being the first released under his name alone). On April 30th, James, co-writer and keyboardist Matt Guillory (Dali’s Dilemma) and other members of the touring band took the stage at the Mean Fiddler in London. During the afternoon prior to that show, myself, Kerry and Tom found ourselves standing in the foyer of the adjoining Astoria waiting to meet up with James. For once, it was the day of a Dream Theater-related gig in the UK and it wasn’t raining, snowing or being generally nasty! After only a few minutes of standing around, a cheerful, sunglasses-clad James strolled in and after warm greetings we wandered downstairs with him into the subterranean depths of the Mean Fiddler.

The interview itself took place on the balcony of the Astoria (overlooking the stage that amongst other things saw DT’s performance of The Number of the Beast in 2002) and was punctuated by soundcheck – which proved a tantalizing glimpse of things to come later that night.

The main focus of our discussion was of course Elements of Persuasion and James went into great detail on many facets of this, from writing inspiration and the recording process through to performing it live. However, at that time, excitement was also ripe for the impending release of Octavarium. To that end, we were able to pry a few details out of James that now make sense in the context of the album.

KP: So, this is the 9th show on the European tour: how do you think it’s been going so far?

JLB: It’s been going great. I mean, the reaction has been extremely up, you know, when we’re looking out the fans are... I don’t know, I just think the whole response to it has been great. I mean, it’s a matter of just bringing awareness to everyone that this is a band, that we are touring, even though it’s not all the guys that are on the recording. That’s definitely something that we’re really going to try and plan on the next time round – I think that is the ultimate -when you can actually go out with the players that are on the disc. That’s a matter of scheduling – everybody’s so busy nowadays. But I’m very happy with the way that the tour has gone; the guys have been playing great and it’s been a lot of fun.

KP: So, have you noticed a difference between the European and the US venues?

JLB: Well, the difference being that there’s many more people at the venues, but there wasn’t very much advertisement (of the US shows).

RP: They were all kind of in the New York area weren’t they?

JLB: Yeah, there was one New Jersey, one Long Island and one upstate New York, but it was very lacking in the way that it was promoted. And because of that there weren’t very many people. You know, it wasn’t even put up on the Dream Theater site, the US dates... which is... I’m not even going to get into that... [laughter]

KP: Have you enjoyed coming back to the lower key, smaller club type venues or do you miss the theatres?

JLB: I think each setting has something to offer to you. It’s a completely different feel and it’s up to you what you want to get out of it. With me, when I go out on stage, I look out at the music appreciators that are there and I want to give them the best show they can be witnessing. So it doesn’t really matter at that point what room I’m in, but obviously when you’re in a smaller room, it’s easier to connect with people at the back of the room as opposed to when you’re playing a big arena or a big theatre. Even though you try and include everyone, it is what it is and you make the best of any given situation. But I appreciate each environment for what it is.

RP: Generally it’s been a very positive reaction amongst the fans to Elements of Persuasion. How do you feel about the album?

JLB: Well, a biased response to that is I love it. I mean, I think Matt (Guillory) and I achieved everything that we set out to do. We knew that we wanted to make a heavy, aggressive album, with some songs in there that were kind of a little bit more atmospheric and moody and would kind of give the album a bit more balance as far as the dynamic feel throughout, you know? So that’s why we wanted to include such songs as ‘Smashed’ and ‘Lost’ and ‘Slightly Out of Reach’ – they’re quite different in nature stylistically. They’re a lot lighter, the messages are much more deep. But I think that we definitely were able to bring the music to where we can sit back and say 99.5% of it is exactly where we wanted it. There’s always something that you might change, but I think in that sense it might have been something sonically; not necessarily compositionally.

RP: Were there any particular influences on the direction of this album that you were listening to at the time that you wanted to reflect?

JLB: Yeah, absolutely. Well, when we first started getting together to discuss the direction we were both listening to a lot of Meshuggah, Mudvayne, Sevendust and Linkin Park, and then I thought “It’d be really cool to go in this direction”. The thing that I respect about those bands is they are new and that they’ve created their own niche or their own sound, and they’re not afraid to do it. This is what they are and for the most part they’ve done real well. I mean, with the exception of Sevendust – I think they should be a hell of a lot bigger than what they are. I think their last album ‘Seasons’ was unbelievable. I loved it. So I think there was definitely those particular bands that were influencing the idea of where we wanted to go in the heavy sense. And then there were also lifetime influences like Peter Gabriel. I was completely floored by his last album UP. And his last DVD with that tour was just phenomenal. So, there was that and then Seal – I’ve always loved him. I think his collaboration with Trevor Horn has been exceptional, and he’s the kind of guy who kind of sticks to his guns; ‘this is who I am’ and some people like him, some people don’t. But I really think he’s got a great voice, and I just like where he comes from in a musical sense. So, knowing that these were kind of the things that were immediately grabbing our attention, we knew that that was kind of the starting block direction-wise and as far as the stylistic impressions that we wanted to give. I think we definitely achieved it. I think a lot of people were expecting (something different) because they’re going ‘Whoa, I didn’t expect it to be so heavy’. Well, you know, do I look like I’m into to lighter sounds? [laughter] But I’m extremely happy and so is Matt and the reaction has been beautiful. It’s been great.

TM: How long did it take to write and record Elements of Persuasion and how did that fit around any Dream Theater commitments?

JLB: Well, the writing process started about two years ago, and yeah, it had to fit around the Dream Theater schedule. Whenever Dream Theater had some down-time, that’s when Matt and I would get together and then when I was out on the road, any ideas that either one of us would have would have to be conveyed via MP3 or literally talking on the phone to one another. But then actually getting together and throwing ideas back and forth is much more the way to go. We made sure that we did this time when writing so that the spontaneity could become a big part of it as well. And, we also brought in one other guy to write five songs with us – that was Brian Wherry – and he was fantastic. Great guy, very smart. He’s a huge Dream Theater fan and, surprisingly enough – I didn’t know this at the time – but as I was working with Brian he goes on to tell me that he’s been taking drum lessons off of Mike Mangini for the last 2 years. I was like “What?! Oh my God man...” This is so funny, but he’s great. Great guitar player. It was about two years off and on. When we finally got to the point where all the arrangements were done musically, Matt and I sat down and constructed all the melodies. Then Matt wrote three lyrics on the album. He wrote ‘Crucify’, ‘Alone’, ‘Lost’ and then I wrote the rest.

TM: And do you have any particular favourite tracks?

JLB: Uh, well that changes from day to day. That’s the way I am, I can’t really stick with one. It’s the same with the Dream Theater albums; it depends on my feeling or my mood at that particular moment. But I generally do like ‘Freaks’ and ‘Invisible’; I like ‘Alone’, just because it’s a little different. I like ‘Smashed’ a lot, you know, ‘Smashed’ is always one I listen to that I really appreciate how it came out.

KP: Where does the name Elements of Persuasion come from?

JLB: Well, I thought it kind of summed up a lot of the direction where I was taking the lyrics or a lot of my thoughts at the time that I was writing. The Elements of Persuasion that I’m referring to are ‘we are what we are’ from the time we’re born to the time that we die because of our influences, be it the people, be it the things that seem to attract us or appeal to us. They are constantly shaping and molding who we are and how we interact and psychologically how we interpret things and who we become, personality-wise. And how we make this life of ours, whether it’s something positive or something negative – that’s basically what I’m touching upon. That’s why you see the different stages in life artistically (on the album sleeve).

KP: So, we’ve heard rumours that it’s apparently a semi-concept album or it has a theme...

JLB: No, it’s definitely no... well, you could say semi-conceptual in the sense that there’s a couple of songs in there lyrically where... ‘Undecided’ and ‘Pretender’ were written about the way that religions have kind of created this segregated feel and prejudices around the world. They’ve created quite a few horrific things historically and they are constantly pushing us down roads that might not necessarily be good. Everyone interprets things differently and misinterpretations happen quite often. Because of that, there are a lot of situations that become very tragic due to the influence from the few (that shape these interpretations) – they’re responsible but they would never take responsibility for it. But, you know, then there’s other things where you’re dealing with the psyche of people, which ties in to the way people are influenced by faith where it’s always somehow in the background – helping you decide on what you do and how you react to things, and how you interact (to/with) things. Some people are able to handle it and balance it, and make it into something that’s okay. Other people – it completely consumes them and warps them psychologically. A song like ‘Invisible’ is about a person that’s just completely lost sight of who they are, but knows that at one point that they did feel much better about themselves, they felt much better with the people that they were connected to and with, and now they seem to be in a spiraling confused state. ‘Drained’ is about a person who is quite delusional and almost bi-polar finding out that they are this sinister, demented and insensitive person. So, (in lyric-writing terms) it depends on what I’m reading at the time, or on how I interpret things that I’m seeing on TV or my observations of the world – that’s what comes out of me at that particular moment.

KP: So are you aware that Elements of Persuasion has been circulating on the Internet with tracks labeled as Octavarium?

JLB: *strange noise with a mouthful of drink*!!!!

KP: Yeah!

JLB: Well there’s my reaction: “WHAT?!”

*Kerry and Tom explain the situation*

JLB: Oh my God. What the hell?!!

KP: Many people have downloaded it (thinking it was Octavarium) and have been very impressed to discover what it actually is – we know of many people who have said ‘Ooh, I have to go and buy it now’.

JLB: Maybe there’s a reason for it...

TM: Was it you? [laughter]

JLB : Yeah, I set it all up. You know how much I love the downloading on the Internet; yeah I definitely set that one up!!! [more laughter]

KP: So we were just wondering if you knew about it and what you thought about it.

JLB: I had no idea. Well, put it this way; this tour, I’ve been kind of, in a technical sense, in the dark ages. I’m coming into the hotel and I’ve got a really good routine where I go work out and then I get myself ready for the day, and then I go for a walk, and then I go for my coffee. Then I kind of chill out and next thing I know I’m at the venue, and I’m doing interviews, I’m doing a soundcheck, and then I’m warming up, and then I’m doing the gig! And so I have very rarely, these last three weeks, been on my laptop. Even though I’ve had it with me I think I’ve checked it twice. But I was on yesterday and I didn’t see any of that!

TM: It’s mainly Mike Portnoy’s forum.

JLB: Oh really? I check that once in a blue moon, so no, I had no indication or any idea.

KP: I think they’ve been locking it down and closing threads about it.

JLB: Well somebody’s got to clarify that! Guess what guys, you’re not hearing Octavarium! There’s no way. But that’s cool. I mean, it’s cool and it’s crazy. I don’t know who the hell would have set something like that up labeling it as Octavarium. But you see that’s how rumours start too.

TM: So, a few questions about your band. How did you meet up with Brian Wherry and was it interesting having a fan involved?

JLB: I had mentioned to Matt during the writing process that it’d be really cool if we could bring in another guy. I said “We’ve got to find somebody who’s really into the same headspace that we are. Like in a heavy direction.” And Matt’s like “I know the guy! I know the guy!” and he goes “Well let me get him in touch with you and send you some MP3s.” So he sent me ideas of some of the songs like ‘Invisible’ and then ‘Freaks’. I was like “wow, this is very cool”. I said “Well, would you be willing to get together with us and let’s really develop this.” He was great. That’s basically how it came about, and then it just kind of mushroomed from there to be what those 5 songs are now.

TM: And how did you link up with Marco as well?

JLB: Marco came to us actually through Alex Argento who’s a keyboard player from Italy. A great keyboard player actually, he’s fantastic. Matt and Alex had been in touch with each other over the years – they have a mutual respect – and Matt happened to mention to him that we were looking for a guitar player. We were originally going to use Andy Timmons, but we couldn’t nail down our schedules. We just couldn’t make it happen in time and I finally had to say to Andy “Well, I guess it wasn’t meant to be, not this time, maybe sometime in the future we can work.” So then we were faced with finding a guitar player that we knew had to be extraordinary and have a real cool uniqueness to him. I thought this was going to be long and laborious, but no. Matt came across him from Alex. Alex said “you guys have gotta check this guy out. He’s only 24 and he’s unbelievable, and he’s a huge DT fan”. I said “I don’t need a John Petrucci replica, you know?” That should just stay with Dream Theater. So anyways, I got MP3s from Marco and needless to say within five minutes I was completely convinced that this was the guy. So I got in touch with him, we sent him all the songs, and he kept MP3-ing us a lead that he’d do to each song within days and I was just like “Oh my God! Are you f***ing for real?!!” I then flew him over to Canada and we recorded the guitars. He’s very very ahead of his time, you know – he just turned 25 last week and he’s unbelievable. Well, you’ll see it tonight.

TM: We were blown away just watching sound check.

JLB: Yeah, well you’ll love it.

KP: DT lyrics have become increasingly more grounded in reality and speak with experience, and obviously some of them are quite personal. So we were wondering if there were any lyrics on Elements of Persuasion that are personal to you?

JLB: ‘The only thing that I could say would be personal would be ‘Slightly Out of Reach’, which is kind of where I’ve found myself sometimes – constantly being out on the road and not around my family, having all this success and having everything you want materialistically, but you start to say to yourself after a while you’ve got to watch it. I don’t want to be 75 years old and then realise I didn’t spend any time with who really matters and what really matters. So that might be indirectly connected to me. The other one that I would say was more directed from how I personally feel about something was ‘Smashed’. It was based on my observation of the media, and of countries like Rwanda and Chechnya and certain areas of Asia, of how governments have oppressed their people and how unfortunate it is for so many millions of people that have to live under that type of authority. It’s just completely inhumane and unfair. The other lyrics are just from things that I read or once again my personal observations like ‘Pretender’ and ‘Undecided’; I think that’s why the world is at a very precarious point in time because of misinterpretation and these people that are kind of telling us what we should be listening to and the paths that we should be taking. I think everyone’s forgotten to look within themselves and listen to their inner voice because that’s probably the most concise and truest director of all of them.

KP: So, talking about singing other members’ personal lyrics in Dream Theater, for example the AA related ones or ‘Endless Sacrifice’, ‘Take Away My Pain’, etc., how is that for you to sing those? When we watch you we would believe that this is your experience, this is your story.

JLB: I think most people can relate to lyrics because we all pretty much feel the same thing and have these feelings and emotions and experiences that are pretty much across the board. I’ve said it for many many years that whether the singer wrote the lyrics or he didn’t, I think it’s the job of the singer to realise that they are the communicator, they need to convey the message sincerely, genuinely, and so what I’ve done with lyrics that I haven’t written is to sit down and completely immerse myself (in them). That’s what I did myself with every Dream Theater song that I happened not to write lyrics to, which is most, and that’s what I’ve done with other projects like Leonardo. (In that case) I researched it and I got into that guy’s head, or as much as I could, I mean, the guy was just unreal! But as I’ve said, I think it is your responsibility to be in touch with that message as if you are living it, or as if it did happen to you, and I think that’s the only way it can come out of you and feel sincere. If it’s anything else then it’s contrived and bulls*** and, you know, you should find something else to do.

TM: Technically, how do you approach singing different character’s parts like in Scenes From a Memory?

JLB: By researching what I would dunk what that person would be going through and by discussing with whoever wrote the lyrics what they were feeling when writing – without being too literal because I like to leave a little bit of that to myself. And that’s what I do with everything. I mean, even on Elements of Persuasion I had to create a lot of characters; that’s why I’ve shown once again these different sides of me vocally. ‘That’s the only way that I feel you can really understand the subject or the feelings of the person (who is the vehicle for that subject). It’s just about staying in touch with what that lyric is at the moment and really trying to feel it and express it.

TM: And with your new vocal regime, is there anything particularly that you’ve changed about your style or technique?

JLB: Well, I went back to studying two years ago so that’s helped, and my routine is different in the sense that I vocalize. As soon as I’m done with these interviews, I’ll go and vocalise for about 25 minutes and then calm down and just kind of stay quiet. Then I vocalise again before the show. And then I’m jogging every day. I’ll jog three miles a day and I’m also watching what I eat... even though I still like junk food like anyone else!

RP: Just like an overall condition kind of thing then?

JLB: Yeah, definitely, and I just feel a lot better where I am vocally now than I ever have done. I think that does a lot for me because it makes you much more confident, and when you’re more confident you’re more calm, and when you’re more calm you can stay more focused on the task in front of you.

KP: Our next few questions are more Dream Theater related; Are there any covers that you’ve particularly enjoyed singing?

JLB: Yeah, well I had a great time doing Iron Maiden. I had a great time doing Perfect Strangers when we did that. Metallica was good; it was a lot of fun because Master of Puppets is still my favourite album from them. Doing covers is fun but it’s nothing that I really linger on, and go “wow man, that was very cool, I’d love to do that again”. I do have fun doing it but it’s not really at the top of my list as far as what I want to do, I mean, I get a hell of a lot more enjoyment out of doing originals than I do covers.

KP: So we were just wondering have you ever, or do you think you might ever have to say no Mike on his list of ‘you will sing these covers’...

TM: In terms of singing style or...

JLB: Well, I wouldn’t want to do Tiny Tim if that was on his list, which I doubt. First of all I won’t know that until the time comes, I mean, if it happened to be a band that I just could not stand then I would definitely voice it to Mike. Actually, he did want to do one tune in particular, and I’m not even going to tell you the artist, because I don’t want to get into that, and I just said “Mike, I just can’t stand that f***ing song! I can’t stand it! Do you really want to do it?” and he goes “Really? You don’t like it?” and I go “No way, not that one. No way.” And he went “Okay, cool, let’s do this other one.” and I went “Okay, cool.” First and foremost, I think what a lot of people need to understand with Mike is that he’s one of the biggest music fans in the world. I mean the guy just eats, breathes and sleeps it. So when Mike is presenting this to the band, you’ve got to realise it’s coming from a good place, I mean, he’s just so passionate about music, period. So when he’s presenting us with ‘Okay, this will be the next band’, you’ve got to realise that he’s as excited as a kid in a candy store, like “I can’t believe we’re gonna do this, oh s*** man, it’s so cool!” So it’s kind of fun, in a way, because you kind of get caught up in that- “Okay, let’s go up there do this, do it right”. But he’s open minded about it; he’s not gonna make us do something where the other 4 guys are like “this is gonna bite”. We all have common interests in the band. I think with the exception of Master of Puppets – I don’t think Jordan... [laughter]... He was totally like “Who the hell? I gotta go listen to this album, I don’t think I’ve ever heard it,” whereas the rest of us were like “What?!” But that’s ok, because Jordan came from a completely different background.

RP: We’re now only a few weeks away from the release of Octavarium. You’ve gone on record with a really positive take on the album.

JLB: Absolutely.

RP: So what have you found to be the most personally gratifying aspects of it?

JLB: Overall, I just think it’s just a really powerful album for us to have done at this point. I think the writing process went really good, very smooth, everybody was kind of on the same page when the ideas were presented, everybody was enthusiastic. I think that it incorporates a lot of what’s made Dream Theater what we are. You have the progressive side which everybody kind of immediately just assumes, but I think that the way that the progressive elements are being put into Dream Theater’s albums nowadays are much more stylishly done. It’s done for a purpose and not just to be technical or to show what they can do on their instruments, or being superfluous, or anything like that. The album is (sonically) very dynamic, moody and atmospheric and I think the production is quite different than what people were probably used to on the last few albums because we used Michael Brauer, who’s most notably done Cold play and stuff like that. He was great and I just think that the songs... the overall feeling that I get when I’m listening to the album from beginning to end... it’s just very very gratifying. I’m as excited about this album as I was about ‘Scenes...’ I remember sitting at home and listening to ‘Scenes...’ and going; “This is great, we nailed it”, and I feel that on this album, I’m going “This is great, this is the best”. And then to play these songs out live, I think that it’s going to be a lot of fun because it is very very dynamic.

KP: We know that you were present in the studio again during the writing process; how much time did you spend in New York?

JLB: It would be Monday to Friday and then I’d go home on the weekend. And we’d usually start around 2 o’clock in the afternoon and we’d go till 8 or 9, or 10 We’d all sit in the room and it would be John Petrucci presenting some of his ideas: “I’ve got this idea, what do you think of this?” and Jordan would go “hey, I’ve got these ideas, what about...” and then John Myung getting on a groove – “hey, check this...”, and then it would be just a matter of “let’s get in on this and let’s take it down here...” Then once we would get to a point where the song would be arranged and the parts would be definite as to how they fall and what’s the beginning, middle, end, and everything, Mike would jump in and start doing his drums. So at that point it was kind of like “See you later guys!” It usually happened that Monday we’d want to start writing a new tune and then usually by Thursday we’d pretty much have the idea done. I’d always plan to come down Monday morning and then fly home Saturday morning early and then be with my family until Monday. But, usually the way it worked, which was better for me, was by Thursday it’d be like “Hey guys, you know, we’ve got this...” “Ok, See you later!” and I’d go home because Mike would be spending that day or the Friday recording his drums, and if he got it done real quick then John Petrucci would come in and start doing his guitars on Friday. John Myung would come in later in the process and later still Jordan doing his real keyboards. I came it at the very end as far as starting to get into the vocal recording, because Mike, John and I sat down to write the melodies for all the songs and then we went away: “you’re taking those lyrics, you’re taking those and I’ll take these”. We’d write our lyrics and get then back together. It was a great time. I mean, the band’s in a real good headspace these days, you know, we all get along great, the process is pretty much like second nature. We know how we want to go about it or what needs to be done to really achieve the ultimate, for us.

RP: In the interview we conducted with Mike on the last day of recording, he told us that Octavarium had some sort of a concept to it. Bearing in mind that this interview will be published after the album is released, is there anything you want to add to that?

KP: He said it wasn’t a concept, in as much as a story, but he likened it to Sergeant Pepper’s...

JLB: Yeah, I don’t know how much I’d want to... I mean like, and he’s probably already told you this, like Octavarium being 8, and this is the 8th studio album and there’s 8 songs on it, but I think once you get the artwork that Mike worked on with Hugh Syme of Rush fame, you’ll see there’s a lot of hidden messages there that kind of tie into the meaning behind the album. There’s one song, or one area of the album that kind of incorporates many different sections (what we now know is title track ‘Octavarium’ – ed.), and these sections kind of tie in with the theme of, without getting right into it, a circle and how it comes around again, and it’s a bit of a conceptual direction that we took things lyrically. And thematically, as far as the music, you’ll hear reflections back and forth throughout. You’ll hear certain movements reappearing.

TM: You wrote some lyrics for this album; would you like to elaborate on any of the subjects or any inspirations for them?

JLB: Well one of them I wrote kind continued what I was feeling when I was writing Elements of Persuasion. I wrote a song called ‘Sacrificed Sons’, which is basically about what happened in New York on 9/11, and the people behind it. It’s about the fact that these people that carried out the deeds were people that had been brainwashed and really didn’t have their own voice – they just blindly followed someone else’s suggestions of what is the most important thing to do, and what would give you salvation; ‘if you do things this way you’ll go to heaven and have 72 virgins...’ and you just read into this stuff and you start going “how impressionable can you be?” But you have to remember that these people are coming from a culture and an upbringing that we can’t possibly fathom. I kind of touched on that and how we got to that point.

TM: I think everyone thought that song was going to be the second part of In the Name of God because it’s got a kind of similar political theme...

JLB: Yeah but it’s not, I didn’t do that on purpose. But I can see, yeah, In the Name of God being about all these cults and how they’ve really screwed people up and having people do absolutely tragic things.

We would like to thank James for making time to talk to us -- he was very conscious if making sure that we got everything we needed in interview terms, despite having to stop halfway through and soundcheck. Overall, we left with a fascinating, in-depth glimpse into the world if James LaBrie, which we have been happy to share with all of you.