John Petrucci, Mike Portnoy interview

Ola Englund: Welcome to Coffee with Ola. Today I have the immense pleasure to have John Petrucci and Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater. Very excited for the new album and everything that’s coming, and excited for the show. Welcome back! How does it feel?

Mike Portnoy: It feels great. I mean, it’s funny because for the whole world, they’re just starting to see the reunion now, but we’ve been together for a year behind the scenes. So it’s been over a year for us behind the scenes and making the new record, but it’s only now in the past couple weeks since the tour began and since the first music video came out that people are actually seeing us back together again. But for us, it’s old news... It is exciting, though. And you could feel the excitement and the love and the emotions at every show. And every night James welcomes me back on from stage. And it’s been overwhelming, the amount of love and everybody being so welcoming back and everything.

OE: Yeah, and I think Dream Theater probably has one of the best fans in the world, like—

MP: Best and worst.

OE: How so?

MP: Well, best because they are so fanatical and so devoted and so passionate. But with that also comes so critical. Very critical, very demanding, very opinionated. But I mean, really, you can’t complain. That’s what makes them so great.

OE: You released a single, ‘Night Terror’, from the upcoming album, and like I told you in the car, like – it feels like it’s almost a fan service of a song. It like has everything that anyone would want from a Dream Theater song. Just hearing the fills and all of that, it’s like wow, it’s—

John Petrucci: Well, what’s great about you saying that is that there was some back and forth as to what single we should lead with, and ‘Night Terror’ is the first song that we wrote together. When we got together, that’s what came out of us. And so, for us, maybe there are songs that are a little bit more immediate to the general fanbase, but we felt it was important that the first thing that people heard is, “Listen, this is what Dream Theater is. This is the first thing we wrote. This identifies all the stuff that everybody loves about the band and showcases Mike.” I always said that opening fill before the guitar riff that Mike does, that fill is like, “I’m back!” [laughs] “In case you missed me.” [laughs] And I think he did that in one take. It was, like, “Yeah, that’s it. That’s the signature.”

OE: How did that even feel being back in recording again? I mean obviously you’ve been working a lot. It’s not like you’ve been slacking for the past years. But I mean, must definitely be a thing to be back.

MP: To be back home with these guys feels really special. It feels like family, really, honestly. John and me and John Myung have been playing together almost 40 years at this point. We formed the band when we were teenagers and met the first month of college. For us, it’s deeper than just being in a band together. We’ve been through life together. We met our wives together, our wives played in a band together, we had our families at the same time, we’ve been to the funerals of each other’s parents and siblings and things like that. So, we’ve been through all these life experiences together. It goes beyond just the music for us. All that being said, it also, at least to me, felt like no time had passed. It did not feel like 13 years. Once we started writing together, it felt so natural and so fresh. ‘Night Terror’ was the first thing we worked on, and [it] just came out so naturally. There wasn’t much thought needed to go into it. It was like, “OK, here we are where we just left off.”

JP: Exactly. It’s tough to explain. For anybody out there who has been in bands with their friends, you almost have like an unspoken language, like somebody plays something, I know what he means when he plays it and I respond and vice versa. So immediately the songs just developed and grew in such a natural and organic way. It was so cool.

OE: I think it also shows in your live shows. I mean, you guys have been playing for a long time together and the—

JP: Not to interrupt you, but the other day we were at soundcheck and somebody said something, and him [referring to MP] and I said the exact same thing at the exact same time as a joke response. And we both said, we’ve never said that before ever in our lives. But it was like at the same time, like in sync.

OE: So yeah, this new album, Parasomnia – you said that it was conceptual but it’s not a concept album. Can you explain a little bit what it’s about?

JP: Without giving too much of a way, because we always like to keep the mystery, but I think this has been said before, the album’s called Parasomnia, and for those people that don’t know what that is, it encompasses a broad range of sleep disturbances, and that could range from snoring [laughs] to some scarier things, like sleepwalking and night terrors, false awakenings and things like that that are actually really very frightening for the people that it happens to. So, much in the way that ‘Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence’ had a lyrical theme to it where there were different case studies having to do with challenges of mental illness and stuff like that, Parasomnia is sort of the sleep disturbance version of that, but in an entire record, as opposed to just a song.

OE: Wow. I mean, it’s very rare to find bands like this where – like Pantera, I would say Van Halen – you have this brotherly gel, that you guys also have, probably from playing so much together.

MP: I think those are two great examples. I’ve often cited, in comparison to mine and John’s relationship musically, I’ve cited Eddie and Alex Van Halen, Vinnie Paul and Dimebag, and also James Hetfield/Lars Ulrich. That relationship between guitar and drums. But beyond the guitar playing and the drumming, it’s also the writing chemistry. I definitely feel like with John and with the chemistry between the guitar and drums in this band, it’s kind of like the real anchor to this kind of music. It’s very guitar- and drum-driven music. And I think that’s kind of maybe what has made Dream Theater – I don’t want to say rise above – but in terms of commercial success from the other prog metal bands that are out there. I think a lot of the prog music is sometimes maybe too old school or too much keyboards, whereas with Dream Theater, it’s very contemporary sounding, very modern, very heavy. And I think that’s why Dream Theater’s success has kind of elevated beyond a lot of the other prog scene. I don’t know, it just seems like there’s something special there. I know it from having been away all these years and having done all the different bands and things that I’ve done, coming back and playing with John, there’s definitely a relationship there that’s special.

JP: And to just go off what Mike said, for us the important part of the “prog” label is the “metal” part. When we were young, we were Metallica fans, but then we also loved Yes, and we just sort of put it together. So that’s always been then a focus – that metal side. I mean, there’s some Dream Theater songs that are a little bit more softer or palatable, but in general, the style of the band always has that metal side to it. The other thing about such a long-term brotherly musical relationship and friendship that we have is, you kind of know when something works and when something doesn’t. And it’s great having that partnership and having Mike back in that, like, somebody – I don’t know—

OE: You need to bounce with someone.

JP: Yeah. Somebody plays something or does something, and it’s like, “Ah... no.” Or like, “Exactly!” And it’s great having that.

OE: Was it a complete, like, marriage? Or is it still like, “Nah, not this,” and fighting back and forth a little bit – fighting for the songs – something that needs to happen?

JP: No fighting, really.

MP: I think we very rarely disagree. I could only think of a handful of times throughout 40 years where we weren’t on the same page. It very rarely happens.

JP: Exactly. The way that we approach writing music or being creative, even in a lyrical sense – is that there’s always more, there’s always options. You know what I mean? Like, dig your heels in on something that you feel passionate about, but if you’re not selling it, there’s more notes. Just try something different. There’s more words. There’s a different word for that. Sometimes it ends up being better. So it’s important to listen to everybody.

OE: Something I’m really – like songwriting aspect – I’m very interested in. Do you think of lyrical melodies when you write, or if you have a verse or a chorus, do you start with the vocals?

JP: No. [laughs]

OE: [I’m] just thinking, when you write something, the music or the vocals [don’t] turn out the way you want, and then you might have to change something or the themes… I’m just thinking where do the vocals get written in that sense? It seems like it’s afterward.

MP: It’s always been afterward for Dream Theater. We started at Berklee with just the three of us and no singer. We wrote When Dream And Day Unite instrumentally before Charlie was in the band. We wrote Images And Words instrumentally before James was in the band. So right out of the gates, the first three or four albums’ worth of material we wrote was always written instrumentally first. But yeah, and I could tell you, just from having done all the different things I have done throughout the last 13 years, coming back to this, the melodies and the lyrics were part of that first stage. Whereas with Dream Theater, it’s always been music first. We write the music instrumentally. And then we sit down – like for instance, with this album in particular – once the music was done, then we got together and we did like a melody writing session where John, myself, Jordan, and James just sat there and went through every song. Once we established the melodies and just do gibberish phrasings and melodies, from there we figure out who’s going to write the lyrics, split up the lyrics, and then lyrics are written from there.

JP: Most of the times it works out, because as we’re writing the music, we do know this is a vocal section, this is a chorus. So it might lend itself to being more melodic, but every once in a while it bites us in the ass. There were a couple of songs on the album where we were stuck – where the music was already done and we were like, “Man, why did we do that? [laughs] This is – there’s no way this is going to work for a vocal. We should go back and change it.” But at that point, it’s too late, and then we really gotta work extra hard on making the vocal sound natural. Maybe it’s like just a weird combination of time signatures, or the rhythm motif is too complicated – how the hell is anybody gonna sing this? But you get to it.

MP: All that being said, I think another aspect that kind of sets Dream Theater a little further apart from some of the rest of the prog world is the vocal melodies are very hooky. If you listen to this album, every song has got huge choruses with melodic hooks that just sink into you and don’t let go. And I think that’s always been an important thing for Dream Theater. If you look at Images And Words, I think that’s what songs like ‘Pull Me Under’ and ‘Take the Time’ – they had hooky choruses. That’s always been important to us. It is important to shred and have crazy time signatures and have heavy riffs, but also we love melodic bands that have singers that you remember the melodies and the hooks and the choruses, and that’s always been very important to us.

JP: Playing live is very telling for a band. Because if everything you did was just over-the-top, you’d feel a lot of glazed-over eyes in the audience. When we kick into something that’s more open, or the groove is solid, or the melody is just so beautiful and the chorus is big – you can see and feel that reaction.

OE: The audience gets to breathe in there a little bit.

JP: Exactly. Even in a song like ‘Metropolis,’ like, when the groove of the first verse comes in – that’s four-on-the-floor pretty much, and you feel that. And then you do technical stuff and everybody kind of holds their breath. And then the chorus comes in and everyone’s singing. So that live interaction – and we’ve always been a true international touring band – we’ve always put a lot of emphasis on that. And it’s really helpful to songwriting. You can see things even on the new record. ‘Night Terror’ is in the set, and when we kicked into the song, it just has this big open thing, and the lights and lasers are going and stuff – after the show I’m like, “We just wrote, like, the perfect arena opening thing.” You know what I mean? It’s like, those moments really work. And then you get into the meat of the song, and you go back and forth.

OE: Do you think of this when you actually write the song as well? Like, “Oh, is this going to work live?” Because some things you have to dial back a little bit – like, this needs to groove live. Like you said some sections need to breathe more and work before you go into the craziness again and all of that. So that is something you think about a lot.

JP: Definitely. Some of that, I think, is instinctual just from having all this experience, but of course. I always go back to – [turning to MP] you’ll laugh – I don’t know if you remember this when we saw Queensrÿche a long time ago, we met Chris DeGarmo. He was talking to us – I guess it was during the Mindcrime tour and they were playing arenas – and he was like, “Big shapes, man. Big shapes.” [laughs] And I never forget that. Like, every so often that comes up, and what he meant was, you do have to do that thing where you kind of let the music simplify at those times.

MP: And I think it’s true. I think, going back to what we’re talking about, like writing vocal melodies – we’re very conscious when it’s a verse and a chorus, and when we’re supposed to lay back and let the vocals carry. It’s something that we’re very conscious of.

OE: Yeah. And that also – [the] ups and downs on an album – I think one of my favorite concept albums is Scenes From A Memory, for instance, which is very dramatic, but also it’s a trip, listening to the songs, and it’s like watching a full movie.

MP: I think Parasomnia – the upcoming album – is very similar to Scenes in that respect. It’s very cinematic. It was constructed in a way that it’s meant to be digested from top to bottom, from start to finish, like Dark Side Of The Moon or Scenes From A Memory – something like that. It’s not a concept album in terms of telling a story, like Operation: Mindcrime or Scenes From A Memory, but it’s thematic like Dark Side Of The Moon, or Octavarium, or Six Degrees – where it’s supposed to flow from start to finish. And it feels very cinematic. People will immediately recognize that when they hear the new album.

OE: So that makes me think, since we’re in a digital era where people might not listen to a full album – they listen to singles, or Spotify, or playlists even – I mean, that has also have to be a challenge as a band, if they don’t get the context. For me personally, if you have a song on an album, all the other songs make that song. What comes before, what comes after, and all that. And that has to also be a challenge. Like, okay, you have to write singles as well.

MP: I think in the case of this album, the songs can be freestanding. Like, if you hear ‘Night Terror’, you wouldn’t know just from hearing it that it actually comes out of an overture. So you listen to the album, you could get that full start-to-finish experience. But I think also, all the songs that we wrote can be freestanding individual songs and could be played on the radio or part of a playlist or whatever. To me, the perfect world is having that balance of both. And I think we kind of have that with this.

OE: I think with the fans of Dream Theater, it’s not the normal fans, I would say. You have the fans that actually listen to the album. I think in that regard, you’re not affected as much.

JP: No. And we still think old school. Like, even though things have changed around us, like Mike said, we remember putting on Dark Side with your friends. You listen to a record as if you’re watching a movie. It’s like an event – shut the lights down and do whatever it is. We still do that. We just assume everyone’s going to do that. But they probably won’t. But we don’t say, “Oh, well we can’t do that because they’re only going to get one song.” I think that would just stifle creativity.

OE: So, you’re on a 40th anniversary year tour right now.

JP: And we’re only in our 30s, so it’s bizarre. I don’t know how that happened. [lots of laughs] It’s like somehow negative time.

OE: And is Mike back doing setlists?

JP: Yes, he is! Absolutely.

OE: Is it dead-on?

JP: What do you mean?

OE: Is it perfect?

JP: Oh my God, it’s amazing! The reactions to the setlist have, every night, “Oh my God, the set! Oh my God, the set!”

OE: Are you playing different sets now every show, or do you switch out songs here and there?

MP: I think we’ll get back to that eventually, but right now, the setlist is static for two reasons. First of all, it’s a f***ing great setlist. I think if the show is celebrating the band’s whole history, I think the current setlist really has a little bit of something for everybody, covers all the different eras, and in my opinion, the strongest songs. First set comes out of the gates just swinging, second set gets a little deeper with some deep cuts. Encore set kind of leaves everybody satisfied. It’s a very balanced ride. So for that reason alone, I think it’s important for everybody to see this show without f***ing with it too much. But the other reason is we haven’t toured together in almost 14 years or whatever it’s been, so we wanted to get our tour legs back and get comfortable again. So the setlist for a while will remain the same. But I think as time goes on, it’ll start evolving. And we should also mention that this whole tour cycle is gonna go through two phases. I mean, right now, the first six to eight months or whatever is going to be the 40th anniversary and also celebrating the reunion of this lineup. So that’s kind of the focus. But once Parasomnia comes out next year, it’ll slowly shift over to the second phase of the cycle, which will be focusing more on the new album. So, it’s kind of like the first half of this world tour is looking back, and then the second half of this world tour will be looking forward.

OE: So, are you coming back to Sweden for that album then?

JP: Probably.

MP: It wouldn’t be fair to be playing all these places now, and then put out a new album and then ignore it. We’re very excited by the new album. It was meant to be performed in its entirety, so we’re looking forward to that. The idea is to kind of go around the world twice and do both cycles.

OE: That’s why I say you’re just doing fan service all the time. You guys are working your ass off! You’re such a hardworking band. I mean, I can always expect that you come back with an album almost every other year or, like, every two or three years and then immediately come to Europe and Sweden. Always Europe first for some reason. And it’s such a relief as a fan to know that you will deliver all the time. I mean, some bands don’t release albums for 10 years. And it feels like it’s such a band I can trust all the time.

JP: Awesome. We’re consistent.

OE: Exactly. You’re playing songs from different eras of Dream Theater. Like, what’s the hardest song to play today?

JP: The hardest song to play...

OE: ...or the toughest, that’s not ‘The Dance Of Eternity’.

JP: I’ll tell you one: it got easier when we started rehearsals, and the song is ‘Panic Attack.’ As a guitar player, that’s on a baritone guitar. So it’s a long-scale guitar, the strings are like telephone cables, the tempo’s fast, and it’s literally all picking and doing this thing. So when we first started rehearsing that, I was like, “Oh my God!” like, “Can we slow this down a little bit?” And now the song comes in, I’m like, “I’m there. Play it faster!” So that was a challenge in the beginning. Some of the ones that you just haven’t touched in a long time, you almost have to reacquaint yourself with a technique that maybe at the time when you wrote that, you were really comfortable with certain techniques, so you wrote it. Then you go back, and you’re like, “Why the hell did I do that?” [laughs] But they eventually become easier.

OE: Do you play with a click live or do you keep it completely natural?

MP: With me back in the band... It was a discussion we had very early on. With Mike Mangini, they were playing with clicks and to tracks and stuff like that. I can’t speak for them.

OE: That’s understandable. I mean, you come into a band, and you need to learn a lot of songs. I mean, obviously, you need to have a steady ground somewhere, so in that sense.

JP: Well, I mean, we had our concept at the time when Mike was not in the band was that we were going to kind of do this show presentation that was gonna be very dramatically exact. So everything’s in, yeah. In fact, we took that to the extreme on The Astonishing tour, where the orchestra and choir and all that was such a big part of it, that we didn’t have an orchestra with us. So that was playing back, and the movie was such a big part of it. It’s like, there’s no way we can do this if we’re not playing to a click and everything is controlled. Now fast forward with Mike back, [turning to MP] that’s not something that interests you at all. And it’s great, as well. And in some ways, it brings all of us back to the way we used to do things, and the ebb and flow. I will say about Mike, one of the things that makes him such a great drummer is he instinctually knows when to pull and push a part. And you can feel that during the show. And I think that’s probably a difference that’s palpable to fan when they see this breathing and this back and forth. In order to do that, you can’t play to a click.

MP: I mean, it was one of the first discussions we had when we started talking about the live show and the setlist was one question I had: “Can I do that again? Can I have that role back?”

JP: I was like, “Please!” We were at the dinner and I handed him a plate, and I was like, “I’m putting the plate back. Take it off my plate.” I was like, “No, I don’t want to do it.”

MP: But the other issue was the click, and also the singing. I said to these guys, “Do you want me singing again?” Because I do a lot of singing live. Like, “Is that okay?” And they were like, “Yes, that’s part of the sound. We want that back.” And then the other thing that was concerning to me was – to click or not to click. And I told the guys, “Look, I’m not comfortable playing with a click live. I would much rather have the human element.” For me, I feed off of the energy of the audience. I don’t know if it’s just because I’m a drummer or just my personality, but I am spending the whole show looking at the audience and feeling the interaction and pushing and pulling and giving and taking. And sometimes there’s even some moments in the show where we stretch a little. And if you’re on tracks and if you’re on a click, you can’t really stray from the path. And to me, I like having that human element. I like having that things could change from night to night and go different places. Luckily the guys were totally cool with it. And that was a relief for me. So here we are. It’s back to the way it always was.

OE: That’s cool. I mean, then it’s truly live. I mean, that’s the thing. Like, we already have the album. The album is the tempo and all. I want to feel alive when you play live. And that makes me happy. Also, when it’s this type of crazy technical music, it’s nice to hear.

JP: And not only the band, but all of our fans are so excited to have Mike back, so we wanted to embrace what he’s all about. Not like, “No man, you gotta do this.” It’s like, “Yeah, let’s do all the stuff.” Even the stuff we’re not doing now, eventually, the changing setlist or whatever it might involve. Yeah, all the stuff that Mike used to do, bring it back.

OE: That’s awesome.

MP: I’ll let you in on a little trick that I think our fans know, but we do have a system in lieu of a click track – we do have a system where I have electronic pads that only we can hear, only us on stage, and our light man and our front of house guy – they can hear. So in between songs, when we’re sitting in a blackout to count a song in, I use the [pads]. Or if there’s an extended period where there’s no drums, I’ll count it out for the guys. So it’s kind of like a man-made click track. I’m actually manually doing it myself, but at least it’s holding everybody together.

OE: Very cool. I have one last thing that I wanted to bring up. First, let’s start with a question: favorite Pantera album?

JP: Far Beyond Driven.

MP: Vulgar Display. I mean, to me that was just a game changer.

OE: Well, you disagree on that. [laughs]